From mkanat at bugzilla.org Fri Jul 2 03:14:00 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 20:14:00 -0700 Subject: Sitemap: An Extension to Allow Search Engine Indexing of Bugzilla Message-ID: <4C2D5978.4030608@bugzilla.org> Hello hello folks. I just finished writing a new Extension, called Sitemap. This makes Bugzilla indexable by Google, Yahoo, Bing, and Ask. It's also very careful about security bugs. This is all described on the home page for the project, here: http://code.google.com/p/bugzilla-sitemap/ However, you will notice that there aren't any Downloads there yet! That's because I was hoping that before I do an official release, you guys would help me out by doing some informal code review, asking some questions, and doing some testing! The code is available in bzr, at: bzr://bzr.mozilla.org/bugzilla/extensions/sitemap/trunk Or you could just browse it at: http://bzr.mozilla.org/bugzilla/extensions/sitemap/ Anyhow, let me know what you think! If you find any bugs, you can report them on the Google Code tracker there, or just send them to me by email. -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. From gerv at mozilla.org Fri Jul 2 14:36:43 2010 From: gerv at mozilla.org (Gervase Markham) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2010 15:36:43 +0100 Subject: New Search Test, Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <_sydnZQ1D6zhZLDRnZ2dnUVZ_h2dnZ2d@mozilla.org> On 28/06/10 02:01, Max Kanat-Alexander wrote: > Given that these safeguards are in place, do you guys think it's safe > and OK to have the test in Bugzilla's codebase itself, instead of in the > QA tests? Definitely. Gerv _______________________________________________ dev-apps-bugzilla mailing list dev-apps-bugzilla at lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-bugzilla From mkanat at bugzilla.org Sun Jul 4 10:19:26 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2010 03:19:26 -0700 Subject: Bugzilla::Leak - A simple memory examiner for Perl Message-ID: <4C30602E.8010405@bugzilla.org> Attached (if this list supports attachments--I forget) is a file called Leak.pm. This is a tool I've developed over the last day or so to debug memory usage in Perl. So far it's helped me quite a bit to figure out two serious memory-usage issues. There is a comment at the top explaining basically how it works. It's more of a hack that you can hack into your code than a polished product. It probably won't handle every situation, but I suspect that it will work pretty well for Bugzilla code, given the sort of stuff that we usually have in memory. Oh, also, it only works on relatively modern versions of Linux. (RHEL5 or more recent.) -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: Leak.pm URL: From holdenrnktrogeliosiz at gmail.com Sun Jul 4 15:38:07 2010 From: holdenrnktrogeliosiz at gmail.com (Rogelio Holden) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 08:38:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: ADULT CLASSIFIEDS Message-ID: <9056a91e-853a-4368-9979-d30111340cdb@x27g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> . 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dev-apps-bugzilla at lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-bugzilla From mockodin at gmail.com Mon Jul 5 03:40:02 2010 From: mockodin at gmail.com (mockodin at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 03:40:02 +0000 Subject: Bugzilla::Leak - A simple memory examiner for Perl In-Reply-To: <4C30602E.8010405@bugzilla.org> References: <4C30602E.8010405@bugzilla.org> Message-ID: <20421873-1278300637-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1694767940-@bda822.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> You mention modern versions of linux. How about Win or threaded apache instances (which also includes win). Also mod perl? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Max Kanat-Alexander Sender: developers-owner at bugzilla.org Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2010 03:19:26 To: Reply-To: developers at bugzilla.orgSubject: Bugzilla::Leak - A simple memory examiner for Perl Attached (if this list supports attachments--I forget) is a file called Leak.pm. This is a tool I've developed over the last day or so to debug memory usage in Perl. So far it's helped me quite a bit to figure out two serious memory-usage issues. There is a comment at the top explaining basically how it works. It's more of a hack that you can hack into your code than a polished product. It probably won't handle every situation, but I suspect that it will work pretty well for Bugzilla code, given the sort of stuff that we usually have in memory. Oh, also, it only works on relatively modern versions of Linux. (RHEL5 or more recent.) -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. From mkanat at bugzilla.org Mon Jul 5 06:06:35 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2010 23:06:35 -0700 Subject: Bugzilla::Leak - A simple memory examiner for Perl In-Reply-To: <20421873-1278300637-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1694767940-@bda822.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <4C30602E.8010405@bugzilla.org> <20421873-1278300637-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1694767940-@bda822.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <4C31766B.80102@bugzilla.org> On 07/04/2010 08:40 PM, mockodin at gmail.com wrote: > You mention modern versions of linux. How about Win or threaded apache instances (which also includes win). Also mod perl? Devel::Gladiator probably works, but Linux::Smaps doesn't work. So you'd have to come up with your own way of doing size(). -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. From mkanat at bugzilla.org Mon Jul 5 06:08:12 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2010 23:08:12 -0700 Subject: Bugzilla::Leak - A simple memory examiner for Perl In-Reply-To: <4C31766B.80102@bugzilla.org> References: <4C30602E.8010405@bugzilla.org> <20421873-1278300637-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1694767940-@bda822.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <4C31766B.80102@bugzilla.org> Message-ID: <4C3176CC.9000803@bugzilla.org> On 07/04/2010 11:06 PM, Max Kanat-Alexander wrote: > Devel::Gladiator probably works, but Linux::Smaps doesn't work. So > you'd have to come up with your own way of doing size(). Oh, or you could make dump_memory() a signal handler, like say, for SIGINT, and just interrupt the process when it was too large. No idea if signals work on Windows though. -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. From mkanat at bugzilla.org Wed Jul 7 00:57:58 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 17:57:58 -0700 Subject: The First Bugzilla Users & Administrators Group Meeting! Message-ID: <4C33D116.6010708@bugzilla.org> Hey Bugzilla users and developers! The WikiMedia Foundation in San Francisco has offered to host a meet-up for Bugzilla Users, Administrators, and Developers at their office! Pretty neat. We're hoping to do this once a quarter. The first meeting is on Wednesday, August 4, at 7pm. This is a group for anybody who uses or administers Bugzilla. I will be in attendance and talking about what's up with Bugzilla development, demoing new features of 4.0, and generally answering any questions you may have about Bugzilla. Then we're going to have a general group discussion. At our first meeting, the group discussion is going to focus on project management--how do you do project management with Bugzilla? Are there other tools that you use? Are there features that you'd like to see in Bugzilla that would help with Project Management? We may even work out a group of developers to start working on some project management extensions for Bugzilla, if there's an interest. In addition to all of this, we're hoping to have free food and drinks, and there will be time to generally socialize, etc. Everybody is welcome, and attendance is free, but limited to 20 people. (However, if we're at the limit and you still want to come, email me directly and I'll see if I can get you on the guest list.) It's at the Wikimedia Foundation in San Francisco, right in SoMa, so there's a lot to do afterward. If there's interest, we may even all go do something or other afterward, based on the suggestions of the folks at Wikimedia who are familiar with the area. You can RSVP for the group here: http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event/6584059 Look forward to seeing you there! -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. From mkanat at bugzilla.org Thu Jul 8 06:22:36 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 23:22:36 -0700 Subject: Branched for 4.0 Message-ID: <4C356EAC.4030907@bugzilla.org> Hey folks. So, we've branched for 4.0 now. The 4.0 branch is at: bzr://bzr.mozilla.org/bugzilla/4.0 It is not yet mirrored to CVS. There are a few enhancements that will still go on the branch--they are marked blocking4.0 right now. Also, we may accept additional WebServices enhancements almost up to Release Candidate time, since "more complete Bug WebServices" is intended to be one of the flagship features of 4.0, and we have a full test suite for the WebServices that gets updated before we do an RC. Checkins on the 4.0 branch require the approval4.0 flag to be set by mkanat or LpSolit. -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. From lpsolit at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 13:34:23 2010 From: lpsolit at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?RnLDqWTDqXJpYyBCdWNsaW4=?=) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 15:34:23 +0200 Subject: Branched for 4.0 In-Reply-To: <4C356EAC.4030907@bugzilla.org> References: <4C356EAC.4030907@bugzilla.org> Message-ID: <4C35D3DF.8020501@gmail.com> Le 08. 07. 10 08:22, Max Kanat-Alexander a ?crit : > Hey folks. So, we've branched for 4.0 now. > It is not yet mirrored to CVS. Do we need to wait for the CVS 4.0 branch to exist, or can we already start committing patches for 4.2? Do not forget to also bump the Bugzilla version to 4.1 on trunk. ;) LpSolit From mkanat at bugzilla.org Thu Jul 8 16:46:31 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 09:46:31 -0700 Subject: Branched for 4.0 In-Reply-To: <4C35D3DF.8020501@gmail.com> References: <4C356EAC.4030907@bugzilla.org> <4C35D3DF.8020501@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4C3600E7.4010106@bugzilla.org> On 07/08/2010 06:34 AM, Fr?d?ric Buclin wrote: > Do we need to wait for the CVS 4.0 branch to exist, or can we already > start committing patches for 4.2? You can start committing now for 4.2. > Do not forget to also bump the Bugzilla version to 4.1 on trunk. ;) Ah, thank you! Yes, I'll do that right now. -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. 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lorex hard drives lorex high definition camera . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . _______________________________________________ dev-apps-bugzilla mailing list dev-apps-bugzilla at lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-bugzilla From mkanat at bugzilla.org Sat Jul 17 22:09:02 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 15:09:02 -0700 Subject: Boolean Chart Redesign Message-ID: <4C4229FE.3060706@bugzilla.org> Hey folks. So, the Boolean Charts are great, they're powerful, and they've been an important part of Bugzilla since 2000. However, the Boolean Charts have some problems: * The way that AND, OR, and multiple charts work is really confusing. I didn't fully understand it until I fully understood Search.pm, which very few people understand. * You can't really do arbitrary AND/OR groupings. For example, there's no way to do this search with the Boolean Charts: (a AND b) OR (c AND d) * They generate extremely long URLs, because the URL parameters look like field0-0-0, type0-0-0, and value0-0-0. Sometimes these URLs are too long for the web server to deal with, and people can't do the searches they want to. As such, I'd like to propose a redesign of what we currently call "boolean charts" into a system that is able to do arbitrary logical groupings. Here's how it will work: URL parameters will look like: f1=bug_id&o1=equals&v1=1234&j2=OR&n2=1&f2=short_desc&o2=substring&v2=test "f" means "field", "o" means "operator", "v" means "value", "j" means "join" (either AND or OR), and "n" means "not". That URL is a search for bugs where: the bug_id equals 1234 OR NOT (the summary contains the string "test"). There will be two "special" fields for the "f" parameter: OP and CP, which mean "open paren" and "close paren". These will allow logical groupings, with an infinite amount of nesting. For example, if you want to do: ( (bug_id = 1 AND short_desc = 'a') OR NOT (bug_id = 2 AND short_desc = 'b') ) AND priority = 'Low' The URL would look like (split on to multiple lines, indented, and with & removed to help readability): f1=OP f2=OP f3=bug_id o3=equals v3=1 j4=AND f4=short_desc o4=equals v4=a f5=CP j6=OR n6=1 f6=OP f9=bug_id o9=equals v9=2 j10=AND f10=short_desc o10=equals v10=b f11=CP f12=CP j13=AND f13=priority o13=equals v13=Low And even with all that extra OP/CP/AND/OR stuff, I'm pretty sure the resulting URL is still shorter than the equivalent boolean charts URL (which would be impossible anyway). * The boolean chart UI will get two new buttons: "(" and ")". The "Add a new chart" button will be removed. * Certain fields like "flags" want to all refer to the same flag if you specify multiple criteria. For example, if you search for "Flags equals review?" AND "Flag Requestee equals mkanat", you probably mean "find me bugs where the review flag has a requestee of mkanat". In the new system, this will be accomplished by "associating" any fields that are within parens. (Formerly, this was accomplished by associating any fields within the same chart, which could be pretty confusing for users.) So within any set of parens, all searches for the Flag fields will be about one flag. Alternately, we could come up with some specific mechanism for people to associate things, which might be better, but I'm not thinking of anything that would be simple enough in the code and the UI other than the system I just proposed. * Adding a different "join" than the previous "join" without specifying an "open-paren" would be an error. That is, this is too ambiguous to allow: a AND b OR c AND d. Did the user intend "(a AND b) OR (c AND d)", or did they intend "a AND (b or C) AND d"? The UI will handle this automatically by closing the existing parentheses set if you specify a different operator than you last used. It will still be possible to generate improper URLs, though, which should be throw an error to prevent unexpected results from ambiguous logical groupings. * Saved Searches and New Charts series can both be upgraded to this new system automatically, most likely with no loss of functionality, within the "convert_old_params" method in Search.pm, so there should be little need for people to manually fix their saved searches or any URLs that they have linked to Bugzilla using the old system. We may be able to do something similar to continue supporting people's Default Queries, if they involve boolean charts, but that's a lower priority. * Once the system is in place, QuickSearch can be upgraded to support parentheses. We will need some better parsing code to support this properly, possibly using some CPAN module. Does this sound good to everybody? Are there any questions, concerns, suggestions? -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. From dmarshal at yahoo-inc.com Sun Jul 18 02:52:21 2010 From: dmarshal at yahoo-inc.com (David Marshall) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 19:52:21 -0700 Subject: Boolean Chart Redesign In-Reply-To: <4C4229FE.3060706@bugzilla.org> Message-ID: On 7/17/10 3:09 PM, "Max Kanat-Alexander" wrote: > > Hey folks. So, the Boolean Charts are great, they're powerful, and > they've been an important part of Bugzilla since 2000. However, the > Boolean Charts have some problems: > > * The way that AND, OR, and multiple charts work is really confusing. I > didn't fully understand it until I fully understood Search.pm, which > very few people understand. I think they're pretty easy to understand, actually. Each Boolean chart is AND'ed with everything else. A Boolean chart, which can be individually negated, has rows that are AND'ed together. Within each row, there are columns that are OR'ed together. > > * You can't really do arbitrary AND/OR groupings. For example, there's > no way to do this search with the Boolean Charts: > > (a AND b) OR (c AND d) It is certainly not easy to do with with a Boolean chart, but it's possible! However, I don't want to explain DeMorgan's Law to anyone who would then need to apply them to a Boolean chart. Hopefully I will someday be able to release Yahoo's replacement for the Boolean chart, a predicate tree. The reason we do this is so that we can avoid OR'ing stuff together (we do a bunch of UNIONs). However, it would also allow us to perform any arbitrary AND/OR groupings. Perhaps what is needed is some crazy Javascript thing that allows building advanced queries graphically - something that translates the query being constructed into a statement of what search criteria are being applied. Perhaps what's really needed is a complete overhaul of the advanced search UI? I omitted the rest of Max's mail, but I want to chime in that I hate the notion of a parentheses button. We have a number of management-type users at Yahoo! who just don't grok operator precedence and the need for parentheses. We're doing a lot of work on UI these days, although I don't know that we've talked much about advanced search. I know, however, that most of our users don't really know how to take advantage of its capabilities. There's a lot of implicit ANDing going on, and I have fielded any number of questions about it. From mkanat at bugzilla.org Sun Jul 18 08:03:28 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 01:03:28 -0700 Subject: Boolean Chart Redesign In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C42B550.60808@bugzilla.org> On 07/17/2010 07:52 PM, David Marshall wrote: > I think they're pretty easy to understand, actually. Each Boolean chart is > AND'ed with everything else. A Boolean chart, which can be individually > negated, has rows that are AND'ed together. Within each row, there are > columns that are OR'ed together. You are also one of the few people intimately familiar with the code of Search.pm. > It is certainly not easy to do with with a Boolean chart, but it's possible! > However, I don't want to explain DeMorgan's Law to anyone who would then > need to apply them to a Boolean chart. There *are* logical groupings that are impossible, though, with the boolean charts, because you can only NOT individual whole charts, so DeMorgan's Law cannot be applied. > I omitted the rest of Max's mail, but I want to chime in that I hate the > notion of a parentheses button. We have a number of management-type users > at Yahoo! who just don't grok operator precedence and the need for > parentheses. Okay. Do these manager types currently use and understand boolean charts? Parentheses are not *necessary*, they are just used to add operator precedence. If you fail to use them, the chart UI will work similarly to how it does now. The proposal isn't about a UI for manager types or non-engineers--in fact, it's not even about UI at all. Right now, I'm designing a backend system that can be used to build queries. Once we have this, there are already plans in place (known by at least pyrzak and I) to design a simple search system that could be used by non-engineers very effectively, but this email thread has absolutely nothing to do with that. -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. From Callek at gmail.com Mon Jul 19 02:58:57 2010 From: Callek at gmail.com (Justin Wood (Callek)) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 22:58:57 -0400 Subject: Boolean Chart Redesign In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 7/18/2010 4:03 AM, Max Kanat-Alexander wrote: > On 07/17/2010 07:52 PM, David Marshall wrote: >> I think they're pretty easy to understand, actually. Each Boolean chart is >> AND'ed with everything else. A Boolean chart, which can be individually >> negated, has rows that are AND'ed together. Within each row, there are >> columns that are OR'ed together. > > You are also one of the few people intimately familiar with the code of > Search.pm. > I think I am too; since I actually read Search.pm to try and figure out how to do a certain query. [of course I gave up on my end-result with it though] >> It is certainly not easy to do with with a Boolean chart, but it's possible! >> However, I don't want to explain DeMorgan's Law to anyone who would then >> need to apply them to a Boolean chart. > > There *are* logical groupings that are impossible, though, with the > boolean charts, because you can only NOT individual whole charts, so > DeMorgan's Law cannot be applied. > Which also makes some searches LONGER... I mean, I had tried to create a complex search which found existing bugs IN a product/component combo; that was in a Product and NOT in {set of known components}. My solution is probably 20x slower than need be, since it gathers a fairly large list of bugs, and trims them down; rather than gathering a fairly small list, and adds to them. >> I omitted the rest of Max's mail, but I want to chime in that I hate the >> notion of a parentheses button. We have a number of management-type users >> at Yahoo! who just don't grok operator precedence and the need for >> parentheses. > > Okay. Do these manager types currently use and understand boolean > charts? Parentheses are not *necessary*, they are just used to add > operator precedence. If you fail to use them, the chart UI will work > similarly to how it does now. > > The proposal isn't about a UI for manager types or non-engineers--in > fact, it's not even about UI at all. Right now, I'm designing a backend > system that can be used to build queries. Once we have this, there are > already plans in place (known by at least pyrzak and I) to design a > simple search system that could be used by non-engineers very > effectively, but this email thread has absolutely nothing to do with that. My only request on the UI-Side is that the boolean chart can be expanded-out with JS rather than GET/POST requests to add a row/column/etc. p.s. I'd also LOVE if backend could support POST for at least the boolean chart to help avoid this "query-string-too-long" bug. [the UI could possibly even try and catch this issue, and POST instead of GET just in case] ;-) -- ~Justin Wood (Callek) _______________________________________________ dev-apps-bugzilla mailing list dev-apps-bugzilla at lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-bugzilla From mkanat at bugzilla.org Mon Jul 19 09:00:42 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 02:00:42 -0700 Subject: Boolean Chart Redesign In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C44143A.7090704@bugzilla.org> On 07/18/2010 07:58 PM, Justin Wood (Callek) wrote: > My only request on the UI-Side is that the boolean chart can be > expanded-out with JS rather than GET/POST requests to add a row/column/etc. Oh yeah, there's a bug for that: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41652 > p.s. I'd also LOVE if backend could support POST for at least the > boolean chart to help avoid this "query-string-too-long" bug. [the UI > could possibly even try and catch this issue, and POST instead of GET > just in case] ;-) Aaaactually, I think we do already, as of 3.6. :-) But there is still an efficiency issue with the length of URLs in other areas--cookie headers, in particular. I think it might be good to shorten the URL variables (instead of having long URL variables and short internal variable names, like we used to, which seems a bit backwards. :-) ) -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. From gerv at mozilla.org Mon Jul 19 21:33:43 2010 From: gerv at mozilla.org (Gervase Markham) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 14:33:43 -0700 Subject: Boolean Chart Redesign In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 17/07/10 15:09, Max Kanat-Alexander wrote: > * The way that AND, OR, and multiple charts work is really confusing. I > didn't fully understand it until I fully understood Search.pm, which > very few people understand. I think that your statement of the problem is entirely accurate and very well put, and that having a way to do arbitrary boolean logic would be very useful, but that your suggested solution (both for the UI and possibly also for the URL parameters) results in increased or, at best, equal complexity rather than an improvement. This is not a new problem; people have been creating graphical query builders for some time now. Would it not make sense to a) look at those and b) talk to some of the usability people we have and see if we can come up with a design for building queries which is less complicated? Gerv _______________________________________________ dev-apps-bugzilla mailing list dev-apps-bugzilla at lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-bugzilla From mkanat at bugzilla.org Mon Jul 19 21:38:24 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 14:38:24 -0700 Subject: Group Name Guessing Disclosure Policy Message-ID: <4C44C5D0.3010808@bugzilla.org> Hey folks. So, right now we have a policy that goes like this: Group names are confidential. If somebody tries to guess a group name, we don't want to tell them whether or not that group name exists, because my guessing infinitely, they could discover confidential group names. So, if somebody tries to add or remove a group to a bug that doesn't exist, we fail silently. This is OK when the only interface for adding groups is the web UI, because you can't typo a group name or id--they're checkboxes! :-) So anybody mis-adding or removing a group is hacking the URL, and we don't care so much. But with 4.0 comes Bug.update, and the ability to add or remove groups from bugs using the API! Also, I believe email_in.pl will support adding groups in 4.0, so there's another opportunity for typos. Bug security is really important--far more important than protecting against guessing group names. Right now, according to our policy, if somebody typos a group name (or specifies a group name that can't be validly added to the bug), it will silently fail. This means that people will have bugs that they intended to be secure that are actually public, which is very bad. Now, a simple solution sounds like, "Oh, so we should just tell people that 'the group you specified either does not exist or you cannot see its name'." However, there are two problems with that: * There is actually no central way for being able to tell if somebody "can see the name" of a group. There are so many possible ways that a group's name could be seen (membership, othercontrol, permissions, inheritance, admin interfaces, etc.) that it would be nearly impossible to effectively write a single method that would tell us whether or not somebody can see a group's name or not. * The Group Controls are really complex. So if we have the same error for "this group doesn't exist" and "this group can't validly be added or removed from this product", then it will confuse the heck out of everyday Bugzilla administrators. So, I propose that we start explicitly telling people if a group doesn't exist, and then we explicitly tell them if they are trying to do something invalid with a group that *does* exist. This means that group names would be exposed if somebody managed to guess one, but I think that that is an acceptable fact, particularly if we relnote it for the upcoming 4.0 release, highlighted as a security change. Does this sound OK? -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. From dottedmag at dottedmag.net Mon Jul 19 21:48:10 2010 From: dottedmag at dottedmag.net (Mikhail Gusarov) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 04:48:10 +0700 Subject: Group Name Guessing Disclosure Policy In-Reply-To: <4C44C5D0.3010808@bugzilla.org> (Max Kanat-Alexander's message of "Mon, 19 Jul 2010 14:38:24 -0700") References: <4C44C5D0.3010808@bugzilla.org> Message-ID: <87k4or3zz9.fsf@leibnitz.dottedmag.net> Twas brillig at 14:38:24 19.07.2010 UTC-07 when mkanat at bugzilla.org did gyre and gimble: MK> This is OK when the only interface for adding groups is the web UI, MK> because you can't typo a group name or id--they're checkboxes! :-) MK> So anybody mis-adding or removing a group is hacking the URL, and MK> we don't care so much. But with 4.0 comes Bug.update, and the MK> ability to add or remove groups from bugs using the API! Also, I MK> believe email_in.pl will support adding groups in 4.0, so there's MK> another opportunity for typos. I don't see why URL hacking is different from API hacking from the security standpoint. -- http://fossarchy.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 835 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dkl at redhat.com Mon Jul 19 21:48:49 2010 From: dkl at redhat.com (David Lawrence) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 17:48:49 -0400 Subject: Group Name Guessing Disclosure Policy In-Reply-To: <4C44C5D0.3010808@bugzilla.org> References: <4C44C5D0.3010808@bugzilla.org> Message-ID: <4C44C841.70305@redhat.com> Sounds fine to me. On 7/19/10 5:38 PM, Max Kanat-Alexander wrote: > Hey folks. So, right now we have a policy that goes like this: > > Group names are confidential. If somebody tries to guess a group name, > we don't want to tell them whether or not that group name exists, > because my guessing infinitely, they could discover confidential group > names. So, if somebody tries to add or remove a group to a bug that > doesn't exist, we fail silently. > > This is OK when the only interface for adding groups is the web UI, > because you can't typo a group name or id--they're checkboxes! :-) So > anybody mis-adding or removing a group is hacking the URL, and we don't > care so much. But with 4.0 comes Bug.update, and the ability to add or > remove groups from bugs using the API! Also, I believe email_in.pl will > support adding groups in 4.0, so there's another opportunity for typos. > > Bug security is really important--far more important than protecting > against guessing group names. Right now, according to our policy, if > somebody typos a group name (or specifies a group name that can't be > validly added to the bug), it will silently fail. This means that people > will have bugs that they intended to be secure that are actually public, > which is very bad. > > Now, a simple solution sounds like, "Oh, so we should just tell people > that 'the group you specified either does not exist or you cannot see > its name'." However, there are two problems with that: > > * There is actually no central way for being able to tell if somebody > "can see the name" of a group. There are so many possible ways that a > group's name could be seen (membership, othercontrol, permissions, > inheritance, admin interfaces, etc.) that it would be nearly impossible > to effectively write a single method that would tell us whether or not > somebody can see a group's name or not. > > * The Group Controls are really complex. So if we have the same error > for "this group doesn't exist" and "this group can't validly be added or > removed from this product", then it will confuse the heck out of > everyday Bugzilla administrators. > > So, I propose that we start explicitly telling people if a group > doesn't exist, and then we explicitly tell them if they are trying to do > something invalid with a group that *does* exist. This means that group > names would be exposed if somebody managed to guess one, but I think > that that is an acceptable fact, particularly if we relnote it for the > upcoming 4.0 release, highlighted as a security change. > > Does this sound OK? > > -Max -- David Lawrence, RHCE dkl at redhat.com ------------------------------------ Red Hat, Inc. Web: www.redhat.com 1801 Varsity Drive Raleigh, NC 27606 What happens when open source way is applied to the world? http://opensource.com From dmarshal at yahoo-inc.com Mon Jul 19 21:59:36 2010 From: dmarshal at yahoo-inc.com (David Marshall) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 14:59:36 -0700 Subject: Boolean Chart Redesign In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 7/19/10 2:33 PM, "Gervase Markham" wrote: > On 17/07/10 15:09, Max Kanat-Alexander wrote: >> * The way that AND, OR, and multiple charts work is really confusing. I >> didn't fully understand it until I fully understood Search.pm, which >> very few people understand. > > I think that your statement of the problem is entirely accurate and very > well put, and that having a way to do arbitrary boolean logic would be > very useful, but that your suggested solution (both for the UI and > possibly also for the URL parameters) results in increased or, at best, > equal complexity rather than an improvement. > > This is not a new problem; people have been creating graphical query > builders for some time now. > > Would it not make sense to a) look at those and b) talk to some of the > usability people we have and see if we can come up with a design for > building queries which is less complicated? > A few of things come to mind: A lot of programs have rules-based filters where one of the choices are "all of these match" or "any of these match." This is essentially the AND/OR choice. Perhaps we could implement something like that? Perhaps searching should be regarded as just a set of filters applied to bug, anything you can search has its own filter section in advanced search? Boolean charts would become fully expressive if a position in a chart could contain another chart. Max's example was: (a AND b) OR (c AND d) This could be represented in a chart as: chart1: (0,0): chart2, (0,1): chart3 chart2: (0,0): a (1,0): b chart3: (0,0): c (1,0): d From mkanat at bugzilla.org Mon Jul 19 22:03:12 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 15:03:12 -0700 Subject: Boolean Chart Redesign In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C44CBA0.60901@bugzilla.org> On 07/19/2010 02:33 PM, Gervase Markham wrote: > Would it not make sense to a) look at those and b) talk to some of the > usability people we have and see if we can come up with a design for > building queries which is less complicated? Well, no matter what UI gets put on the frontend, I'm pretty sure the proposed backend will be able to handle it. But if you (or an experienced UI designer) think there are UIs that would benefit from a totally different backend, then I'd be open to hearing about it. I do already know of a UI design for building queries that would be less complicated--it wouldn't have all the functionality of the boolean charts, but it would be usable on the Simple Search page. (It would be something like the Thunderbird filters interface or the Rhythmbox "automatic playlist" editing interface.) If there are also proposals for UIs that *would* be able to represent any query (because ultimately, there are many developers and project managers who are going to need that), then sure, I'd be interested in hearing about them. I'm pretty sure that there are no queries (that can be expressed in SQL) that cannot be represented by my proposed backend design. So, any frontend could go on it--but what I'm talking about is the backend, and then a very simple modification to the existing UI to start with, before we go and heavily redesign the UI (which is not something we should do at the same time as heavily refactoring the backend). -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. From mkanat at bugzilla.org Mon Jul 19 22:04:25 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 15:04:25 -0700 Subject: Group Name Guessing Disclosure Policy In-Reply-To: <87k4or3zz9.fsf@leibnitz.dottedmag.net> References: <4C44C5D0.3010808@bugzilla.org> <87k4or3zz9.fsf@leibnitz.dottedmag.net> Message-ID: <4C44CBE9.3090105@bugzilla.org> On 07/19/2010 02:48 PM, Mikhail Gusarov wrote: > I don't see why URL hacking is different from API hacking from the > security standpoint. Well, mostly because the URL isn't really an official API, and we don't expect people to be URL hacking all that often. It's not different from a *security* standpoint, but it is different from the standpoint of things we actually expect people to do. -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. From lpsolit at gmail.com Mon Jul 19 22:58:19 2010 From: lpsolit at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?RnLDqWTDqXJpYyBCdWNsaW4=?=) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 00:58:19 +0200 Subject: Group Name Guessing Disclosure Policy In-Reply-To: <4C44C5D0.3010808@bugzilla.org> References: <4C44C5D0.3010808@bugzilla.org> Message-ID: <4C44D88B.20400@gmail.com> Le 19. 07. 10 23:38, Max Kanat-Alexander a ?crit : > Now, a simple solution sounds like, "Oh, so we should just tell people > that 'the group you specified either does not exist or you cannot see > its name'." However, there are two problems with that: > > * There is actually no central way for being able to tell if somebody > "can see the name" of a group. IMO, that's not a big deal. If you are editing groups from editgroups.cgi, then you are in the creategroups group and the error message should say "Group Foo doesn't exist", because you are allowed to view all groups. Else if you are not in admin pages, and you don't belong to the creategroups group, then the error message should say "Either the group Foo doesn't exist, or this group is not visible to you", because you really don't need to know more. All you have to do is to add [% IF user.in_group('creategroups') %] .. be explicit .. [% ELSE %] .. be vague .. [% END %] in the appropriate error message in user-error.html.tmpl. Remember that turning on the makeproductgroups parameter creates one group per product. Letting users guess group names means letting them guess product names as well, which we don't want. LpSolit From mkanat at bugzilla.org Mon Jul 19 23:01:02 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 16:01:02 -0700 Subject: Group Name Guessing Disclosure Policy In-Reply-To: <4C44D88B.20400@gmail.com> References: <4C44C5D0.3010808@bugzilla.org> <4C44D88B.20400@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4C44D92E.2050703@bugzilla.org> On 07/19/2010 03:58 PM, Fr?d?ric Buclin wrote: >> * There is actually no central way for being able to tell if somebody >> "can see the name" of a group. > > IMO, that's not a big deal. But it is when you're writing an arbitrary method, from a software design perspective. We shouldn't be writing a new function for every single place in the UI that can display the name of a group! -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. From lpsolit at gmail.com Mon Jul 19 23:05:03 2010 From: lpsolit at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?RnLDqWTDqXJpYyBCdWNsaW4=?=) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 01:05:03 +0200 Subject: Group Name Guessing Disclosure Policy In-Reply-To: <4C44D92E.2050703@bugzilla.org> References: <4C44C5D0.3010808@bugzilla.org> <4C44D88B.20400@gmail.com> <4C44D92E.2050703@bugzilla.org> Message-ID: <4C44DA1F.7050206@gmail.com> Le 20. 07. 10 01:01, Max Kanat-Alexander a ?crit : > But it is when you're writing an arbitrary method, from a software > design perspective. We shouldn't be writing a new function for every > single place in the UI that can display the name of a group! Why would you do that? The same way we don't disclose product names from a central way ($user->can_see_product()), we can also check the visibility of a group from a central way, say $user->can_see_group(). LpSolit From mkanat at bugzilla.org Mon Jul 19 23:09:15 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 16:09:15 -0700 Subject: Group Name Guessing Disclosure Policy In-Reply-To: <4C44DA1F.7050206@gmail.com> References: <4C44C5D0.3010808@bugzilla.org> <4C44D88B.20400@gmail.com> <4C44D92E.2050703@bugzilla.org> <4C44DA1F.7050206@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4C44DB1B.10303@bugzilla.org> On 07/19/2010 04:05 PM, Fr?d?ric Buclin wrote: > we can also check the > visibility of a group from a central way, say $user->can_see_group(). No, we can't--that's what I'm saying. The code to do that would be too complex, and would probably perform badly as well. There are numerous different situations under which a user is allowed to see a group's name. -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. From mkanat at bugzilla.org Mon Jul 19 23:09:58 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 16:09:58 -0700 Subject: Group Name Guessing Disclosure Policy In-Reply-To: <4C44D88B.20400@gmail.com> References: <4C44C5D0.3010808@bugzilla.org> <4C44D88B.20400@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4C44DB46.9020803@bugzilla.org> On 07/19/2010 03:58 PM, Fr?d?ric Buclin wrote: > Remember that turning on the makeproductgroups parameter creates one > group per product. Letting users guess group names means letting them > guess product names as well, which we don't want. That's true. Although in the case where group names are confidential, they can rename the group name to a code name, if they know that group names can be guessed. -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. From lpsolit at gmail.com Mon Jul 19 23:15:53 2010 From: lpsolit at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?RnLDqWTDqXJpYyBCdWNsaW4=?=) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 01:15:53 +0200 Subject: Group Name Guessing Disclosure Policy In-Reply-To: <4C44DB1B.10303@bugzilla.org> References: <4C44C5D0.3010808@bugzilla.org> <4C44D88B.20400@gmail.com> <4C44D92E.2050703@bugzilla.org> <4C44DA1F.7050206@gmail.com> <4C44DB1B.10303@bugzilla.org> Message-ID: <4C44DCA9.7060909@gmail.com> Le 20. 07. 10 01:09, Max Kanat-Alexander a ?crit : > No, we can't--that's what I'm saying. The code to do that would be too > complex, and would probably perform badly as well. There are numerous > different situations under which a user is allowed to see a group's name. This is too vague to be helpful. Give me a few examples of these "numerous different situations" you are thinking about. From bgroh at redhat.com Tue Jul 20 00:00:31 2010 From: bgroh at redhat.com (Bernd Groh) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 10:00:31 +1000 Subject: Boolean Chart Redesign In-Reply-To: <4C4229FE.3060706@bugzilla.org> References: <4C4229FE.3060706@bugzilla.org> Message-ID: <4C44E71F.6010502@redhat.com> Max Kanat-Alexander wrote: > Hey folks. So, the Boolean Charts are great, they're powerful, and > they've been an important part of Bugzilla since 2000. However, the > Boolean Charts have some problems: > > * The way that AND, OR, and multiple charts work is really confusing. I > didn't fully understand it until I fully understood Search.pm, which > very few people understand. > > * You can't really do arbitrary AND/OR groupings. For example, there's > no way to do this search with the Boolean Charts: > > (a AND b) OR (c AND d) > > * They generate extremely long URLs, because the URL parameters look > like field0-0-0, type0-0-0, and value0-0-0. Sometimes these URLs are too > long for the web server to deal with, and people can't do the searches > they want to. > > > As such, I'd like to propose a redesign of what we currently call > "boolean charts" into a system that is able to do arbitrary logical > groupings. Here's how it will work: > > URL parameters will look like: > > f1=bug_id&o1=equals&v1=1234&j2=OR&n2=1&f2=short_desc&o2=substring&v2=test > > "f" means "field", "o" means "operator", "v" means "value", "j" means > "join" (either AND or OR), and "n" means "not". That URL is a search for > bugs where: > > the bug_id equals 1234 > OR NOT (the summary contains the string "test"). > > There will be two "special" fields for the "f" parameter: OP and CP, > which mean "open paren" and "close paren". These will allow logical > groupings, with an infinite amount of nesting. For example, if you want > to do: > > ( (bug_id = 1 AND short_desc = 'a') OR NOT (bug_id = 2 AND short_desc = > 'b') ) AND priority = 'Low' > > The URL would look like (split on to multiple lines, indented, and > with & removed to help readability): > > f1=OP > f2=OP > f3=bug_id o3=equals v3=1 > j4=AND > f4=short_desc o4=equals v4=a > f5=CP > j6=OR n6=1 > f6=OP > f9=bug_id o9=equals v9=2 > j10=AND > f10=short_desc o10=equals v10=b > f11=CP > f12=CP > j13=AND > f13=priority o13=equals v13=Low > > And even with all that extra OP/CP/AND/OR stuff, I'm pretty sure the > resulting URL is still shorter than the equivalent boolean charts URL > (which would be impossible anyway). > First of all, I think it's great that this is finally being looked at. I've been extremely frustrated with the boolean charts on a number of occasions, and it's good to hear things are happening here. Yet, I'm not so sure whether above approach really makes the query less complicated, or significantly shorter. As to the length, in my experience, the length issue is most often caused not by the slightly longer parameter names, but by the length of the data values. Shortening the parameter names doesn't really do much if you've got a data value containing a few hundred components. I don't think above approach would help addressing that issue (and I'm not sure it really can be addressed, other than by using POST instead of GET). As to how much less confusing this query would be, looking at it, it actually appears even more confusing to me. What I'd like to ask, is whether we really need to distribute the query over so many different parameters. Wouldn't there be a way to simply have the url, to use above example, look like this: boolean_query=( (bug_id = 1 AND short_desc = 'a') OR NOT (bug_id = 2 AND short_desc = 'b') ) AND priority = 'Low' To me, that would make the query less confusing. That would make it a lot easier to construct queries. And how would I like the UI to look? Well, it would have two parts. One part most people are familiar with, buttons, operators, and text fields to construct the query, and a big massive text box that gets filled as you construct the query. And if you don't really like to use all these buttons, fields and text boxes, then you can just write the query straight into the text box, and that's that. And no, I don't necessarily expect everyone to agree with me, but I figured I may as well throw out there what I'd like to have it look like. And I really don't care what the back-end looks like as long as it can deal with valid boolean queries (preferably submitted in a single parameter). Cheers, Bernd > * The boolean chart UI will get two new buttons: "(" and ")". The "Add > a new chart" button will be removed. > > * Certain fields like "flags" want to all refer to the same flag if you > specify multiple criteria. For example, if you search for "Flags equals > review?" AND "Flag Requestee equals mkanat", you probably mean "find me > bugs where the review flag has a requestee of mkanat". In the new > system, this will be accomplished by "associating" any fields that are > within parens. (Formerly, this was accomplished by associating any > fields within the same chart, which could be pretty confusing for > users.) So within any set of parens, all searches for the Flag fields > will be about one flag. > Alternately, we could come up with some specific mechanism for people > to associate things, which might be better, but I'm not thinking of > anything that would be simple enough in the code and the UI other than > the system I just proposed. > > * Adding a different "join" than the previous "join" without specifying > an "open-paren" would be an error. That is, this is too ambiguous to > allow: a AND b OR c AND d. Did the user intend "(a AND b) OR (c AND d)", > or did they intend "a AND (b or C) AND d"? > The UI will handle this automatically by closing the existing > parentheses set if you specify a different operator than you last used. > It will still be possible to generate improper URLs, though, which > should be throw an error to prevent unexpected results from ambiguous > logical groupings. > > * Saved Searches and New Charts series can both be upgraded to this new > system automatically, most likely with no loss of functionality, within > the "convert_old_params" method in Search.pm, so there should be little > need for people to manually fix their saved searches or any URLs that > they have linked to Bugzilla using the old system. We may be able to do > something similar to continue supporting people's Default Queries, if > they involve boolean charts, but that's a lower priority. > > * Once the system is in place, QuickSearch can be upgraded to support > parentheses. We will need some better parsing code to support this > properly, possibly using some CPAN module. > > Does this sound good to everybody? Are there any questions, concerns, > suggestions? > > -Max > From benjamin at smedbergs.us Tue Jul 20 00:16:59 2010 From: benjamin at smedbergs.us (Benjamin Smedberg) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 20:16:59 -0400 Subject: Boolean Chart Redesign In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 7/17/10 6:09 PM, Max Kanat-Alexander wrote: > As such, I'd like to propose a redesign of what we currently call > "boolean charts" into a system that is able to do arbitrary logical > groupings. Here's how it will work: I'll note that as an "advanced charts user" there are some things that cannot be adequately expressed even with arbitrary AND/OR groupings. These mainly relate to queries on attachments or flags. But this isn't clear, and sometimes I don't want that behavior. Especially when searching for flags on attachments, this appears to break down. e.g. "Bugs with a non-obsolete attachment which has a review flag but the flag requestee is empty." If I'm doing the current charts correctly, I think what I get is "bugs with a non-obsolete attachment with a review flag and a flag with an empty requestee". Which is subtly different. And if I didn't know how charts behave in practice, I would read the chart and assume it meant "bugs with a non-obsolete attachment, a review flag on any attachment, and a flag (either a bug flag or an attachment flag) with a blank requestee." I would really like some clarity on how limiters such as "attachment is obsolete" and "Flag requestee" and such are applied to attachment, bug flags, and attachment flags. In addition, it would be really nice if we could have attachment queries, where the results link to particular attachments and list attachment metadata, instead of linking to bugs which you have to open and then look for the attachment which matched. --BDS _______________________________________________ dev-apps-bugzilla mailing list dev-apps-bugzilla at lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-bugzilla From bgroh at redhat.com Tue Jul 20 00:20:41 2010 From: bgroh at redhat.com (Bernd Groh) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 10:20:41 +1000 Subject: Boolean Chart Redesign In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C44EBD9.4040609@redhat.com> David Marshall wrote: > > On 7/17/10 3:09 PM, "Max Kanat-Alexander" wrote: > > >> Hey folks. So, the Boolean Charts are great, they're powerful, and >> they've been an important part of Bugzilla since 2000. However, the >> Boolean Charts have some problems: >> >> * The way that AND, OR, and multiple charts work is really confusing. I >> didn't fully understand it until I fully understood Search.pm, which >> very few people understand. >> > > I think they're pretty easy to understand, actually. Each Boolean chart is > AND'ed with everything else. A Boolean chart, which can be individually > negated, has rows that are AND'ed together. Within each row, there are > columns that are OR'ed together. > Well, that's how you'd read them, in theory. Yet, if you're a heavy user of the boolean charts you quickly figure that that doesn't apply in practice. I've filed quite a number of bugs, because the result I got for `chart 1: A AND B` was different to the result I got for `chart 1: A; chart 2: B`, even though I thought these both meant (A AND B). Search.pm does a lot of things, but it doesn't really apply logic. > >> * You can't really do arbitrary AND/OR groupings. For example, there's >> no way to do this search with the Boolean Charts: >> >> (a AND b) OR (c AND d) >> > > It is certainly not easy to do with with a Boolean chart, but it's possible! > However, I don't want to explain DeMorgan's Law to anyone who would then > need to apply them to a Boolean chart. > I think something has to actually apply logic rules in the first place, in order for DeMorgan's Law to have any meaning. > Hopefully I will someday be able to release Yahoo's replacement for the > Boolean chart, a predicate tree. The reason we do this is so that we can > avoid OR'ing stuff together (we do a bunch of UNIONs). However, it would > also allow us to perform any arbitrary AND/OR groupings. > > Perhaps what is needed is some crazy Javascript thing that allows building > advanced queries graphically - something that translates the query being > constructed into a statement of what search criteria are being applied. > Perhaps what's really needed is a complete overhaul of the advanced search > UI? > Yes, please! It doesn't have to be graphical, it can just be the input fields we've come to ummm.... love, but if it were to create a single statement which represent the actual query to be submitted to the "query engine", then that would be awesome. Then people could just build their own boolean query generators and simply make sure to submit a valid boolean query. But maybe I'm just dreaming here? :-) Cheers, Bernd > I omitted the rest of Max's mail, but I want to chime in that I hate the > notion of a parentheses button. We have a number of management-type users > at Yahoo! who just don't grok operator precedence and the need for > parentheses. > > We're doing a lot of work on UI these days, although I don't know that we've > talked much about advanced search. I know, however, that most of our users > don't really know how to take advantage of its capabilities. There's a lot > of implicit ANDing going on, and I have fielded any number of questions > about it. > > > - > To view or change your list settings, click here: > > From gerv at mozilla.org Tue Jul 20 00:21:52 2010 From: gerv at mozilla.org (Gervase Markham) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 17:21:52 -0700 Subject: Group Name Guessing Disclosure Policy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 19/07/10 14:38, Max Kanat-Alexander wrote: > This is OK when the only interface for adding groups is the web UI, > because you can't typo a group name or id--they're checkboxes! :-) So > anybody mis-adding or removing a group is hacking the URL, and we don't > care so much. But with 4.0 comes Bug.update, and the ability to add or > remove groups from bugs using the API! Also, I believe email_in.pl will > support adding groups in 4.0, so there's another opportunity for typos. If the API were to support group IDs rather than group names, would this problem be mitigated? Gerv _______________________________________________ dev-apps-bugzilla mailing list dev-apps-bugzilla at lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-bugzilla From gerv at mozilla.org Tue Jul 20 00:24:13 2010 From: gerv at mozilla.org (Gervase Markham) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 17:24:13 -0700 Subject: Boolean Chart Redesign In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 19/07/10 15:03, Max Kanat-Alexander wrote: > Well, no matter what UI gets put on the frontend, I'm pretty sure the > proposed backend will be able to handle it. Well, it depends if you want it to be able to handle it without using Javascript. If Javascript is allowed to be mandatory, I agree that a generic flexible backend could have any frontend. However, I was under the impression (or did we change this?) that we are attempting not to require JS in Bugzilla's public UI. If that's so, then the nature of HTML forms means the backend and the frontend are intimately tied together. Gerv _______________________________________________ dev-apps-bugzilla mailing list dev-apps-bugzilla at lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-bugzilla From dmarshal at yahoo-inc.com Tue Jul 20 01:18:16 2010 From: dmarshal at yahoo-inc.com (David Marshall) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 18:18:16 -0700 Subject: Boolean Chart Redesign In-Reply-To: <4C44EBD9.4040609@redhat.com> Message-ID: On 7/19/10 5:20 PM, "Bernd Groh" wrote: > David Marshall wrote: >> >> On 7/17/10 3:09 PM, "Max Kanat-Alexander" wrote: >> >> >>> Hey folks. So, the Boolean Charts are great, they're powerful, and >>> they've been an important part of Bugzilla since 2000. However, the >>> Boolean Charts have some problems: >>> >>> * The way that AND, OR, and multiple charts work is really confusing. I >>> didn't fully understand it until I fully understood Search.pm, which >>> very few people understand. >>> >> >> I think they're pretty easy to understand, actually. Each Boolean chart is >> AND'ed with everything else. A Boolean chart, which can be individually >> negated, has rows that are AND'ed together. Within each row, there are >> columns that are OR'ed together. >> > > Well, that's how you'd read them, in theory. Yet, if you're a heavy user > of the boolean charts you quickly figure that that doesn't apply in > practice. I've filed quite a number of bugs, because the result I got > for `chart 1: A AND B` was different to the result I got for `chart 1: > A; chart 2: B`, even though I thought these both meant (A AND B). > Search.pm does a lot of things, but it doesn't really apply logic. > Because Yahoo has been way behind the curve on which Bugzilla to which we're closest (2.22 !?!), I haven't been able to apply my changes to Search.pm to the trunk. If Search.pm is broken, it doesn't need to be. That's separate from any UI discussion. Below is my opinion on how the backend part should be changed. I don't have any opinion about whether/how the UI should change, but I intuitively believe that is orthogonal to the backend. Recommendation: 2-D Boolean Charts! Right now, the Boolean charts have 1 dimension which implies that the charts should be ANDed. All the stuff above the Boolean charts section with the numeric designation -1. If I create two more Boolean charts, I AND together chart -1, chart 0, and chart 1. Suppose we had Boolean charts in two dimensions? The special chart would now have coordinate (0, 0). If a user creates one Boolean chart to AND with the special chart, it goes at (1,0). If the Boolean chart should be OR with the special chart, it goes as (0,1). Additional Boolean charts are created as needed. More complicated expressions are possible if the contents of a chart can be another chart. >> >>> * You can't really do arbitrary AND/OR groupings. For example, there's >>> no way to do this search with the Boolean Charts: >>> >>> (a AND b) OR (c AND d) >>> >> >> It is certainly not easy to do with with a Boolean chart, but it's possible! >> However, I don't want to explain DeMorgan's Law to anyone who would then >> need to apply them to a Boolean chart. >> > > I think something has to actually apply logic rules in the first place, > in order for DeMorgan's Law to have any meaning. > >> Hopefully I will someday be able to release Yahoo's replacement for the >> Boolean chart, a predicate tree. The reason we do this is so that we can >> avoid OR'ing stuff together (we do a bunch of UNIONs). However, it would >> also allow us to perform any arbitrary AND/OR groupings. >> >> Perhaps what is needed is some crazy Javascript thing that allows building >> advanced queries graphically - something that translates the query being >> constructed into a statement of what search criteria are being applied. >> Perhaps what's really needed is a complete overhaul of the advanced search >> UI? >> > > Yes, please! It doesn't have to be graphical, it can just be the input > fields we've come to ummm.... love, but if it were to create a single > statement which represent the actual query to be submitted to the "query > engine", then that would be awesome. Then people could just build their > own boolean query generators and simply make sure to submit a valid > boolean query. But maybe I'm just dreaming here? :-) > > Cheers, > Bernd > >> I omitted the rest of Max's mail, but I want to chime in that I hate the >> notion of a parentheses button. We have a number of management-type users >> at Yahoo! who just don't grok operator precedence and the need for >> parentheses. >> >> We're doing a lot of work on UI these days, although I don't know that we've >> talked much about advanced search. I know, however, that most of our users >> don't really know how to take advantage of its capabilities. There's a lot >> of implicit ANDing going on, and I have fielded any number of questions >> about it. >> >> >> - >> To view or change your list settings, click here: >> >> > > - > To view or change your list settings, click here: > From bgroh at redhat.com Tue Jul 20 01:42:34 2010 From: bgroh at redhat.com (Bernd Groh) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 11:42:34 +1000 Subject: Boolean Chart Redesign In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C44FF0A.20001@redhat.com> David Marshall wrote: > > On 7/19/10 5:20 PM, "Bernd Groh" wrote: > > >> David Marshall wrote: >> >>> On 7/17/10 3:09 PM, "Max Kanat-Alexander" wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Hey folks. So, the Boolean Charts are great, they're powerful, and >>>> they've been an important part of Bugzilla since 2000. However, the >>>> Boolean Charts have some problems: >>>> >>>> * The way that AND, OR, and multiple charts work is really confusing. I >>>> didn't fully understand it until I fully understood Search.pm, which >>>> very few people understand. >>>> >>>> >>> I think they're pretty easy to understand, actually. Each Boolean chart is >>> AND'ed with everything else. A Boolean chart, which can be individually >>> negated, has rows that are AND'ed together. Within each row, there are >>> columns that are OR'ed together. >>> >>> >> Well, that's how you'd read them, in theory. Yet, if you're a heavy user >> of the boolean charts you quickly figure that that doesn't apply in >> practice. I've filed quite a number of bugs, because the result I got >> for `chart 1: A AND B` was different to the result I got for `chart 1: >> A; chart 2: B`, even though I thought these both meant (A AND B). >> Search.pm does a lot of things, but it doesn't really apply logic. >> >> > > Because Yahoo has been way behind the curve on which Bugzilla to which we're > closest (2.22 !?!), I haven't been able to apply my changes to Search.pm to > the trunk. If Search.pm is broken, it doesn't need to be. That's separate > from any UI discussion. > > Below is my opinion on how the backend part should be changed. I don't have > any opinion about whether/how the UI should change, but I intuitively > believe that is orthogonal to the backend. > > Recommendation: 2-D Boolean Charts! > > Right now, the Boolean charts have 1 dimension which implies that the charts > should be ANDed. All the stuff above the Boolean charts section with the > numeric designation -1. If I create two more Boolean charts, I AND together > chart -1, chart 0, and chart 1. > > Suppose we had Boolean charts in two dimensions? The special chart would > now have coordinate (0, 0). If a user creates one Boolean chart to AND with > the special chart, it goes at (1,0). If the Boolean chart should be OR with > the special chart, it goes as (0,1). Additional Boolean charts are created > as needed. > > More complicated expressions are possible if the contents of a chart can be > another chart. > Charts inside charts? To be honest, I'd much prefer it if we did away with this entire new chart thing. If you allow the use of parentheses, and you apply logical precedence to your operators NOT, AND and OR, you don't need any new charts, neither AND nor OR, as you'll be able to express everything within a single chart. I'd much rather formulate the entire query within a single chart, than using multiple charts in multiple dimensions and having to consider nesting charts within charts. But maybe that's just me? As to everything above the boolean charts, I think the entire logic of the advanced search page implies AND with respect to each of the sub-components. This should still apply. Whatever is above the boolean charts, using the current logic, AND the entirety of the one boolean chart. And in my opinion, there should only be one boolean chart, and logic rules should apply. Cheers, Bernd > > >>> >>> >>>> * You can't really do arbitrary AND/OR groupings. For example, there's >>>> no way to do this search with the Boolean Charts: >>>> >>>> (a AND b) OR (c AND d) >>>> >>>> >>> It is certainly not easy to do with with a Boolean chart, but it's possible! >>> However, I don't want to explain DeMorgan's Law to anyone who would then >>> need to apply them to a Boolean chart. >>> >>> >> I think something has to actually apply logic rules in the first place, >> in order for DeMorgan's Law to have any meaning. >> >> >>> Hopefully I will someday be able to release Yahoo's replacement for the >>> Boolean chart, a predicate tree. The reason we do this is so that we can >>> avoid OR'ing stuff together (we do a bunch of UNIONs). However, it would >>> also allow us to perform any arbitrary AND/OR groupings. >>> >>> Perhaps what is needed is some crazy Javascript thing that allows building >>> advanced queries graphically - something that translates the query being >>> constructed into a statement of what search criteria are being applied. >>> Perhaps what's really needed is a complete overhaul of the advanced search >>> UI? >>> >>> >> Yes, please! It doesn't have to be graphical, it can just be the input >> fields we've come to ummm.... love, but if it were to create a single >> statement which represent the actual query to be submitted to the "query >> engine", then that would be awesome. Then people could just build their >> own boolean query generators and simply make sure to submit a valid >> boolean query. But maybe I'm just dreaming here? :-) >> >> Cheers, >> Bernd >> >> >>> I omitted the rest of Max's mail, but I want to chime in that I hate the >>> notion of a parentheses button. We have a number of management-type users >>> at Yahoo! who just don't grok operator precedence and the need for >>> parentheses. >>> >>> We're doing a lot of work on UI these days, although I don't know that we've >>> talked much about advanced search. I know, however, that most of our users >>> don't really know how to take advantage of its capabilities. There's a lot >>> of implicit ANDing going on, and I have fielded any number of questions >>> about it. >>> >>> >>> - >>> To view or change your list settings, click here: >>> >>> >>> >> - >> To view or change your list settings, click here: >> >> > > - > To view or change your list settings, click here: > > From bgroh at redhat.com Tue Jul 20 01:59:29 2010 From: bgroh at redhat.com (Bernd Groh) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 11:59:29 +1000 Subject: Boolean Chart Redesign In-Reply-To: <4C44FF0A.20001@redhat.com> References: <4C44FF0A.20001@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4C450301.4010700@redhat.com> Bernd Groh wrote: > David Marshall wrote: >> >> On 7/19/10 5:20 PM, "Bernd Groh" wrote: >> >> >>> David Marshall wrote: >>> >>>> On 7/17/10 3:09 PM, "Max Kanat-Alexander" wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hey folks. So, the Boolean Charts are great, they're powerful, and >>>>> they've been an important part of Bugzilla since 2000. However, the >>>>> Boolean Charts have some problems: >>>>> >>>>> * The way that AND, OR, and multiple charts work is really >>>>> confusing. I >>>>> didn't fully understand it until I fully understood Search.pm, which >>>>> very few people understand. >>>>> >>>> I think they're pretty easy to understand, actually. Each Boolean >>>> chart is >>>> AND'ed with everything else. A Boolean chart, which can be >>>> individually >>>> negated, has rows that are AND'ed together. Within each row, there >>>> are >>>> columns that are OR'ed together. >>>> >>> Well, that's how you'd read them, in theory. Yet, if you're a heavy >>> user >>> of the boolean charts you quickly figure that that doesn't apply in >>> practice. I've filed quite a number of bugs, because the result I got >>> for `chart 1: A AND B` was different to the result I got for `chart 1: >>> A; chart 2: B`, even though I thought these both meant (A AND B). >>> Search.pm does a lot of things, but it doesn't really apply logic. >>> >>> >> >> Because Yahoo has been way behind the curve on which Bugzilla to >> which we're >> closest (2.22 !?!), I haven't been able to apply my changes to >> Search.pm to >> the trunk. If Search.pm is broken, it doesn't need to be. That's >> separate >> from any UI discussion. >> >> Below is my opinion on how the backend part should be changed. I >> don't have >> any opinion about whether/how the UI should change, but I intuitively >> believe that is orthogonal to the backend. >> >> Recommendation: 2-D Boolean Charts! >> >> Right now, the Boolean charts have 1 dimension which implies that the >> charts >> should be ANDed. All the stuff above the Boolean charts section with >> the >> numeric designation -1. If I create two more Boolean charts, I AND >> together >> chart -1, chart 0, and chart 1. >> >> Suppose we had Boolean charts in two dimensions? The special chart >> would >> now have coordinate (0, 0). If a user creates one Boolean chart to >> AND with >> the special chart, it goes at (1,0). If the Boolean chart should be >> OR with >> the special chart, it goes as (0,1). Additional Boolean charts are >> created >> as needed. >> >> More complicated expressions are possible if the contents of a chart >> can be >> another chart. >> > > Charts inside charts? To be honest, I'd much prefer it if we did away > with this entire new chart thing. If you allow the use of parentheses, > and you apply logical precedence to your operators NOT, AND and OR, > you don't need any new charts, neither AND nor OR, as you'll be able > to express everything within a single chart. I'd much rather formulate > the entire query within a single chart, than using multiple charts in > multiple dimensions and having to consider nesting charts within > charts. But maybe that's just me? As to everything above the boolean > charts, I think the entire logic of the advanced search page implies > AND with respect to each of the sub-components. This should still > apply. Whatever is above the boolean charts, using the current logic, > AND the entirety of the one boolean chart. And in my opinion, there > should only be one boolean chart, and logic rules should apply. I guess I should add, that's said with respect to the back-end. I believe it would be a lot cleaner if only a single chart was submitted to the "query engine", and the "query engine" would do with that single chart what it has to do in order to retrieve the result. If, in the sense of divide-and-conquer, the UI would allow to build sub-components of a query (call them charts if you will), that you can can negate, conjunct and disjunct with each other, and even nest, then that's a different matter. But to me, that's a UI thing. I still think it would be a lot cleaner if the back-end was working on a single chart, or rather, on a single boolean string. Cheers, Bernd > > Cheers, > Bernd > >> >> >>>> >>>>> * You can't really do arbitrary AND/OR groupings. For example, >>>>> there's >>>>> no way to do this search with the Boolean Charts: >>>>> >>>>> (a AND b) OR (c AND d) >>>>> >>>> It is certainly not easy to do with with a Boolean chart, but it's >>>> possible! >>>> However, I don't want to explain DeMorgan's Law to anyone who would >>>> then >>>> need to apply them to a Boolean chart. >>>> >>> I think something has to actually apply logic rules in the first place, >>> in order for DeMorgan's Law to have any meaning. >>> >>> >>>> Hopefully I will someday be able to release Yahoo's replacement for >>>> the >>>> Boolean chart, a predicate tree. The reason we do this is so that >>>> we can >>>> avoid OR'ing stuff together (we do a bunch of UNIONs). However, it >>>> would >>>> also allow us to perform any arbitrary AND/OR groupings. >>>> >>>> Perhaps what is needed is some crazy Javascript thing that allows >>>> building >>>> advanced queries graphically - something that translates the query >>>> being >>>> constructed into a statement of what search criteria are being >>>> applied. >>>> Perhaps what's really needed is a complete overhaul of the advanced >>>> search >>>> UI? >>>> >>> Yes, please! It doesn't have to be graphical, it can just be the input >>> fields we've come to ummm.... love, but if it were to create a single >>> statement which represent the actual query to be submitted to the >>> "query >>> engine", then that would be awesome. Then people could just build their >>> own boolean query generators and simply make sure to submit a valid >>> boolean query. But maybe I'm just dreaming here? :-) >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Bernd >>> >>> >>>> I omitted the rest of Max's mail, but I want to chime in that I >>>> hate the >>>> notion of a parentheses button. We have a number of >>>> management-type users >>>> at Yahoo! who just don't grok operator precedence and the need for >>>> parentheses. >>>> >>>> We're doing a lot of work on UI these days, although I don't know >>>> that we've >>>> talked much about advanced search. I know, however, that most of >>>> our users >>>> don't really know how to take advantage of its capabilities. >>>> There's a lot >>>> of implicit ANDing going on, and I have fielded any number of >>>> questions >>>> about it. >>>> >>>> >>>> - >>>> To view or change your list settings, click here: >>>> >>>> >>> - >>> To view or change your list settings, click here: >>> >>> >> >> - >> To view or change your list settings, click here: >> >> > > - > To view or change your list settings, click here: > From mkanat at bugzilla.org Tue Jul 20 02:33:50 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 19:33:50 -0700 Subject: Boolean Chart Redesign In-Reply-To: <4C44EBD9.4040609@redhat.com> References: <4C44EBD9.4040609@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4C450B0E.5050307@bugzilla.org> On 07/19/2010 05:20 PM, Bernd Groh wrote: > Yes, please! It doesn't have to be graphical, it can just be the input > fields we've come to ummm.... love, but if it were to create a single > statement which represent the actual query to be submitted to the "query > engine", then that would be awesome. Then people could just build their > own boolean query generators and simply make sure to submit a valid > boolean query. But maybe I'm just dreaming here? :-) Well, actually, QuickSearch will more or less be that query language, once I'm done with the redesign. -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. From mkanat at bugzilla.org Tue Jul 20 02:35:29 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 19:35:29 -0700 Subject: Boolean Chart Redesign In-Reply-To: <4C44FF0A.20001@redhat.com> References: <4C44FF0A.20001@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4C450B71.4080705@bugzilla.org> On 07/19/2010 06:42 PM, Bernd Groh wrote: > As to everything above the boolean charts, I > think the entire logic of the advanced search page implies AND with > respect to each of the sub-components. This should still apply. Whatever > is above the boolean charts, using the current logic, AND the entirety > of the one boolean chart. Yeah, agreed. > And in my opinion, there should only be one > boolean chart, and logic rules should apply. Also agreed. -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. From bgroh at redhat.com Tue Jul 20 02:39:33 2010 From: bgroh at redhat.com (Bernd Groh) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 12:39:33 +1000 Subject: Boolean Chart Redesign In-Reply-To: <4C450B71.4080705@bugzilla.org> References: <4C44FF0A.20001@redhat.com> <4C450B71.4080705@bugzilla.org> Message-ID: <4C450C65.4040107@redhat.com> Max Kanat-Alexander wrote: > On 07/19/2010 06:42 PM, Bernd Groh wrote: > >> As to everything above the boolean charts, I >> think the entire logic of the advanced search page implies AND with >> respect to each of the sub-components. This should still apply. Whatever >> is above the boolean charts, using the current logic, AND the entirety >> of the one boolean chart. >> > > Yeah, agreed. > > >> And in my opinion, there should only be one >> boolean chart, and logic rules should apply. >> > > Also agreed. > Excellent! :-) Bernd > -Max > From mkanat at bugzilla.org Tue Jul 20 02:46:26 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 19:46:26 -0700 Subject: Boolean Chart Redesign In-Reply-To: <4C44E71F.6010502@redhat.com> References: <4C4229FE.3060706@bugzilla.org> <4C44E71F.6010502@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4C450E02.9050106@bugzilla.org> On 07/19/2010 05:00 PM, Bernd Groh wrote: > As to how much less confusing this query > would be, looking at it, it actually appears even more confusing to me. Well, sure, but you wouldn't be looking at the query parameters. You'd be looking at the UI where there were actual parentheses and AND/OR written visibly, with indentation and so forth, if that's the UI you wanted to use. But see below for my note on where there will be a simpler input method. > What I'd like to ask, is whether we really need to distribute the query > over so many different parameters. Wouldn't there be a way to simply > have the url, to use above example, look like this: > [snip] Well, but why force parsing into an API when you can have discrete elements? > boolean_query=( (bug_id = 1 AND short_desc = 'a') OR NOT (bug_id = 2 AND > short_desc = > 'b') ) AND priority = 'Low' That is more or less exactly how Quicksearch will work once I'm done. So there will be support for that, but it won't be the primary API. The parsing adds significant complexity that doesn't need to be there if we just have discrete parameters in the ultimate backend API. Also, some people may not be aware of this, but in future versions of Bugzilla, the "Summary" box on the Advanced Search page will very likely become a Quicksearch box. So you can construct your queries there in addition to using the normal discrete fields. > And no, I don't necessarily expect everyone to agree with me, but I > figured I may as well throw out there what I'd like to have it look > like. And I really don't care what the back-end looks like as long as it > can deal with valid boolean queries (preferably submitted in a single > parameter). Well, it is possible that at some point in the future, the current "boolean charts" UI could be replaced with a Quicksearch query builder. But that wouldn't be a first step. -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. From mkanat at bugzilla.org Tue Jul 20 02:55:13 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 19:55:13 -0700 Subject: Group Name Guessing Disclosure Policy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C451011.9050300@bugzilla.org> On 07/19/2010 05:21 PM, Gervase Markham wrote: > If the API were to support group IDs rather than group names, would this > problem be mitigated? Well, I actually want the API to support group names instead of IDs. I originally told you to use IDs because of the problem we're discussing in this thread, but when actually implementing Bug.update and thinking about how people would use it, I changed my mind. Part of the reason to use names is that I want API calls to be portable across Bugzillas with identically-named groups. Also, names are easy to understand and see, and group IDs are meaningless. The error "You tried to add the group 1 to this bug but it is not legal here" is really unhelpful, as an example. Also, the API doubles as the interface for email_in.pl (because of how Bugzilla::Bug works), and I don't think we want to require inbound email senders to know group ids. -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. From mkanat at bugzilla.org Tue Jul 20 02:52:45 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 19:52:45 -0700 Subject: Boolean Chart Redesign In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C450F7D.5010503@bugzilla.org> On 07/19/2010 05:16 PM, Benjamin Smedberg wrote: > I'll note that as an "advanced charts user" there are some things that > cannot be adequately expressed even with arbitrary AND/OR groupings. > These mainly relate to queries on attachments or flags. Yes, the current implementation of Search.pm has serious problems with one-to-many relationships. I recently wrote a regression test that tests every combination of fields and operators for Search.pm, and there are literally hundreds of broken combinations. (And if you start counting groupings that break under AND/OR, there are probably millions of broken combinations.) If you take a look at the log of the "xt MySQL" tinderbox on the Bugzilla tinderbox tree, all of the tests marked TODO are somehow broken. In general, searching attachments and flags does not work nearly as well as it should, and that's something that I'm going to be fixing regardless of what boolean chart design we end up using. I already have a general idea of how I'm going to do the fix, but I have to do a bit more refactoring first and then test some things out. > I would really like some clarity on how limiters such as "attachment is > obsolete" and "Flag requestee" and such are applied to attachment, bug > flags, and attachment flags. Yeah, so would I. :-D Once I'm completely done with the Search.pm refactoring that's underway, I plan to fully document (in public documentation, not just code comments) how it all actually works. > In addition, it would be really nice if we could have attachment > queries, where the results link to particular attachments and list > attachment metadata, instead of linking to bugs which you have to open > and then look for the attachment which matched. Oh, that's an interesting thought. It's a possibility for the future. -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. From dmarshal at yahoo-inc.com Tue Jul 20 03:21:39 2010 From: dmarshal at yahoo-inc.com (David Marshall) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 20:21:39 -0700 Subject: Boolean Chart Redesign In-Reply-To: <4C44FF0A.20001@redhat.com> Message-ID: On 7/19/10 6:42 PM, "Bernd Groh" wrote: >> > > Charts inside charts? To be honest, I'd much prefer it if we did away > with this entire new chart thing. If you allow the use of parentheses, > and you apply logical precedence to your operators NOT, AND and OR, you > don't need any new charts, neither AND nor OR, as you'll be able to > express everything within a single chart. I'd much rather formulate the > entire query within a single chart, than using multiple charts in > multiple dimensions and having to consider nesting charts within charts. > But maybe that's just me? As to everything above the boolean charts, I > think the entire logic of the advanced search page implies AND with > respect to each of the sub-components. This should still apply. Whatever > is above the boolean charts, using the current logic, AND the entirety > of the one boolean chart. And in my opinion, there should only be one > boolean chart, and logic rules should apply. > The predicate of an SQL query is a tree[*]. Boolean charts are an expression of trees that can be composed in the advanced search UI in a way that is easy to write in a URL. As a result, as Max has pointed out, there are some trees that cannot be expressed with Boolean charts as they are now implemented. If we want arbitrarily complex queries, we must determine how to express the resulting trees in a URL. If we choose to express the queries with parentheses and such, then we're not really using the chart concept anymore - we're just passing a stream of tokens that Search.pm will evaluate. That's OK, actually - no one should really care how the tree is represented in a URL. [*] A brief discussion of predicate trees The simplest tree is just an atomic predicate, such as "product = 'foo'" or "bug_status IN ('NEW', 'REOPENED')". Such a tree has only its root node, the atomic predicate. The next simplest is a negated atomic predicate. This tree is a NOT node with its one atomic child. Next, of course, comes AND/OR nodes, with two or more subtrees. These trees have some interesting properties, but I will not bore you with tedious detail. I currently use these trees for putting Boolean charts into a data structure and then express them in SQL. I have interesting ideas about evaluating the trees with methods other than the database, caching the results of the evaluation of some nodes, and so on. From guy.pyrzak at gmail.com Tue Jul 20 03:29:14 2010 From: guy.pyrzak at gmail.com (Guy Pyrzak) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 20:29:14 -0700 Subject: Boolean Chart Redesign In-Reply-To: <4C450F7D.5010503@bugzilla.org> References: <4C450F7D.5010503@bugzilla.org> Message-ID: So I thought I'd chime in and say, UI for boolean charts will basically be worked on independently of whatever max does with the back end. I started working on the boolean charts JS version a while back and we stopped basically because there were plenty of design issues that I personally wasn't happy with the solution etc. I also had to rewrite the back end logic of how boolean charts work into JS which was also not so fun. Basically I stopped working on the JS boolean charts when Max indicated he was going to redo boolean charts. But the point is, I'm happy to help work with anyone on UI designs for the new boolean charts and implement it once the back end is done. We should probably start a new thread/bug for the new Boolean chart design ideas that people have. DWM if you have any screenshots or sketches available I'd be happy to see them. I'm especially interested in hearing about your interactions with managers since i'm pretty sure developers could figure out whatever ui we come with. Also i think for boolean charts requiring JS isn't the end of the world, it's an advanced capability, but that's my opinion. Good to see so many folks interested in how the UI would look though so don't let me chiming in make it sound like these creative are anything bug welcome, just don't want to distract the "how we rewrite search.pm" discussion. -Guy On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 7:52 PM, Max Kanat-Alexander wrote: > On 07/19/2010 05:16 PM, Benjamin Smedberg wrote: > > I'll note that as an "advanced charts user" there are some things that > > cannot be adequately expressed even with arbitrary AND/OR groupings. > > These mainly relate to queries on attachments or flags. > > Yes, the current implementation of Search.pm has serious problems > with > one-to-many relationships. I recently wrote a regression test that tests > every combination of fields and operators for Search.pm, and there are > literally hundreds of broken combinations. (And if you start counting > groupings that break under AND/OR, there are probably millions of broken > combinations.) If you take a look at the log of the "xt MySQL" tinderbox > on the Bugzilla tinderbox tree, all of the tests marked TODO are somehow > broken. > > In general, searching attachments and flags does not work nearly as > well as it should, and that's something that I'm going to be fixing > regardless of what boolean chart design we end up using. I already have > a general idea of how I'm going to do the fix, but I have to do a bit > more refactoring first and then test some things out. > > > I would really like some clarity on how limiters such as "attachment is > > obsolete" and "Flag requestee" and such are applied to attachment, bug > > flags, and attachment flags. > > Yeah, so would I. :-D > > Once I'm completely done with the Search.pm refactoring that's > underway, I plan to fully document (in public documentation, not just > code comments) how it all actually works. > > > In addition, it would be really nice if we could have attachment > > queries, where the results link to particular attachments and list > > attachment metadata, instead of linking to bugs which you have to open > > and then look for the attachment which matched. > > Oh, that's an interesting thought. It's a possibility for the > future. > > -Max > -- > http://www.everythingsolved.com/ > Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. > - > To view or change your list settings, click here: > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkanat at bugzilla.org Tue Jul 20 03:35:32 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 20:35:32 -0700 Subject: Boolean Chart Redesign In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C451984.7090806@bugzilla.org> On 07/19/2010 08:21 PM, David Marshall wrote: > I currently use these trees for putting Boolean charts into a data structure > and then express them in SQL. I have interesting ideas about evaluating the > trees with methods other than the database, caching the results of the > evaluation of some nodes, and so on. I would be interested to know a bit about the data structures that you're using now in the actual code. I'm thinking about using either nested arrays or arrays of hashrefs (where the hashrefs describe each tree node). Also, I think I might start using the word "node" in the Search.pm code if we stop using charts. That's a really good word. :-) Right now, the word "chart" is used super-ambiguously in the Search.pm code. I'd also be interested in hearing your thoughts about pre-evaluation of trees. -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. From bgroh at redhat.com Tue Jul 20 04:09:39 2010 From: bgroh at redhat.com (Bernd Groh) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 14:09:39 +1000 Subject: Boolean Chart Redesign In-Reply-To: <4C450E02.9050106@bugzilla.org> References: <4C4229FE.3060706@bugzilla.org> <4C44E71F.6010502@redhat.com> <4C450E02.9050106@bugzilla.org> Message-ID: <4C452183.6040307@redhat.com> Max Kanat-Alexander wrote: > On 07/19/2010 05:00 PM, Bernd Groh wrote: > >> As to how much less confusing this query >> would be, looking at it, it actually appears even more confusing to me. >> > > Well, sure, but you wouldn't be looking at the query parameters. You'd > be looking at the UI where there were actual parentheses and AND/OR > written visibly, with indentation and so forth, if that's the UI you > wanted to use. Well, I actually am looking at the query parameters. Somehow, that's all I look at, I hardly ever use the current UI, but I do use boolean charts all the time. As such, .... > But see below for my note on where there will be a > simpler input method. > > >> What I'd like to ask, is whether we really need to distribute the query >> over so many different parameters. Wouldn't there be a way to simply >> have the url, to use above example, look like this: >> [snip] >> > > Well, but why force parsing into an API when you can have discrete > elements? > > >> boolean_query=( (bug_id = 1 AND short_desc = 'a') OR NOT (bug_id = 2 AND >> short_desc = >> 'b') ) AND priority = 'Low' >> > > That is more or less exactly how Quicksearch will work once I'm done. > So there will be support for that, but it won't be the primary API. The > parsing adds significant complexity that doesn't need to be there if we > just have discrete parameters in the ultimate backend API. > That'll be great. As long as I can submit a simple boolean string that'll allow me to query what the ordinary UI allows me to query, I'd never actually use the UI, and always ever use the Quicksearch. That would absolutely work for me, even if the backend API is implemented differently. Cheers, Bernd > Also, some people may not be aware of this, but in future versions of > Bugzilla, the "Summary" box on the Advanced Search page will very likely > become a Quicksearch box. So you can construct your queries there in > addition to using the normal discrete fields. > > >> And no, I don't necessarily expect everyone to agree with me, but I >> figured I may as well throw out there what I'd like to have it look >> like. And I really don't care what the back-end looks like as long as it >> can deal with valid boolean queries (preferably submitted in a single >> parameter). >> > > Well, it is possible that at some point in the future, the current > "boolean charts" UI could be replaced with a Quicksearch query builder. > But that wouldn't be a first step. > > -Max > From bgroh at redhat.com Tue Jul 20 04:35:42 2010 From: bgroh at redhat.com (Bernd Groh) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 14:35:42 +1000 Subject: Boolean Chart Redesign In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C45279E.2070105@redhat.com> David Marshall wrote: > > On 7/19/10 6:42 PM, "Bernd Groh" wrote: > > > >>> >>> >> Charts inside charts? To be honest, I'd much prefer it if we did away >> with this entire new chart thing. If you allow the use of parentheses, >> and you apply logical precedence to your operators NOT, AND and OR, you >> don't need any new charts, neither AND nor OR, as you'll be able to >> express everything within a single chart. I'd much rather formulate the >> entire query within a single chart, than using multiple charts in >> multiple dimensions and having to consider nesting charts within charts. >> But maybe that's just me? As to everything above the boolean charts, I >> think the entire logic of the advanced search page implies AND with >> respect to each of the sub-components. This should still apply. Whatever >> is above the boolean charts, using the current logic, AND the entirety >> of the one boolean chart. And in my opinion, there should only be one >> boolean chart, and logic rules should apply. >> >> > > The predicate of an SQL query is a tree[*]. Boolean charts are an > expression of trees that can be composed in the advanced search UI in a way > that is easy to write in a URL. As a result, as Max has pointed out, there > are some trees that cannot be expressed with Boolean charts as they are now > implemented. > Plus, of course, there are certain rules of logic that cannot really be applied. In other words, it isn't really a boolean chart, it's a pseudo-boolean chart. To me, if there's anything to be called boolean, I'd firstly want it to be boolean, rather than think about how it can be written in a URL to construct an SQL query from it. If I predominantly think about how I can write it in a URL in order to express trees, which are then used to create my SQL, how then do I go about getting boolean back into the Boolean charts? And I guess that's my main question. > If we want arbitrarily complex queries, we must determine how to express the > resulting trees in a URL. > If that's my predominant focus, then yes, I believe that's right. But I'm still wondering whether we should design everything up to the URL, and, as such, the UI, around how we need to query in terms of SQL. That said, as long as there is an option to pass in a boolean string, which is fully understood in terms of logic (and not that pseudo-logic the Boolean charts are using), then I think that's absolutely sufficient. Then everyone who wants to post a logic query can simply use that method, irrespective of the UI, or the API backend. > If we choose to express the queries with parentheses and such, then we're > not really using the chart concept anymore - we're just passing a stream of > tokens that Search.pm will evaluate. That's OK, actually - no one should > really care how the tree is represented in a URL. > Completely agree. Though I believe people indeed care how they can use the URL in order to query bugzilla. I know a lot of people who don't use the UI, but use the URL directly (me included), and for these people, the easier they can represent a boolean string, the easier it is. But that, as said, can be supported differently, it doesn't have to be reflected in the UI or the API backend. Cheers, Bernd > [*] A brief discussion of predicate trees > > The simplest tree is just an atomic predicate, such as "product = 'foo'" or > "bug_status IN ('NEW', 'REOPENED')". Such a tree has only its root node, > the atomic predicate. > > The next simplest is a negated atomic predicate. This tree is a NOT node > with its one atomic child. > > Next, of course, comes AND/OR nodes, with two or more subtrees. > > These trees have some interesting properties, but I will not bore you with > tedious detail. > > I currently use these trees for putting Boolean charts into a data structure > and then express them in SQL. I have interesting ideas about evaluating the > trees with methods other than the database, caching the results of the > evaluation of some nodes, and so on. > > - > To view or change your list settings, click here: > > From mkanat at bugzilla.org Tue Jul 20 05:04:48 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 22:04:48 -0700 Subject: Boolean Chart Redesign In-Reply-To: <4C450F7D.5010503@bugzilla.org> References: <4C450F7D.5010503@bugzilla.org> Message-ID: <4C452E70.8040307@bugzilla.org> On 07/19/2010 07:52 PM, Max Kanat-Alexander wrote: > Yes, the current implementation of Search.pm has serious problems with > one-to-many relationships. Okay, actually, I know how I'm going to solve this. :-) Something like: [Flag] [name] [is equal to] [foo] [status] [is equal to] [?] [requestee] [is empty] And then you could NOT that whole grouping. :-) -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. From wurblzap at gmail.com Tue Jul 20 07:12:40 2010 From: wurblzap at gmail.com (Marc Schumann) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 09:12:40 +0200 Subject: Group Name Guessing Disclosure Policy In-Reply-To: <4C44C5D0.3010808@bugzilla.org> References: <4C44C5D0.3010808@bugzilla.org> Message-ID: > care so much. But with 4.0 comes Bug.update, and the ability to add or > remove groups from bugs using the API! Also, I believe email_in.pl will > support adding groups in 4.0, so there's another opportunity for typos. I don't think the API is very prone to typos. We offer nice checkboxes to users in the HTML GUI, and application developers will, too, if they want their application accepted. That said, email_in.pl is another story. I can't see it used widely enough to warrant disclosing group names, though. > ? ? ? ?* There is actually no central way for being able to tell if somebody > "can see the name" of a group. There are so many possible ways that a > group's name could be seen (membership, othercontrol, permissions, > inheritance, admin interfaces, etc.) that it would be nearly impossible > to effectively write a single method that would tell us whether or not > somebody can see a group's name or not. It's difficult, right. But we have something like that in place, right now. Otherwise it wouldn't work the way we want it. I'm not even sure we'd have a complicated $user->can_see_group telling everything, but a $user->can_see_group_in_product (and possibly a $user->can_see_group_on_bug, too, if there are role-specific visibilities) or something along these lines. This isn't too hard. > ? ? ? ?* The Group Controls are really complex. So if we have the same error > for "this group doesn't exist" and "this group can't validly be added or > removed from this product", then it will confuse the heck out of > everyday Bugzilla administrators. App devs, too. I'd much rather see this behaviour documented, though. If it really turns out to be a problem, add a debugging method (or a more detailed error message if the user is a member of the "debuggers" group or whatever). I don't think we should disclose group names. Marc From mkanat at bugzilla.org Tue Jul 20 10:01:23 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 03:01:23 -0700 Subject: Group Name Guessing Disclosure Policy In-Reply-To: References: <4C44C5D0.3010808@bugzilla.org> Message-ID: <4C4573F3.5090905@bugzilla.org> On 07/20/2010 12:12 AM, Marc Schumann wrote: > That said, email_in.pl is another story. I can't see it used widely > enough to warrant disclosing group names, though. It will be pretty widely used some day, I think, once it supports reasonable security and basically allows people to reply to bugmail by email. That's a feature that I expect nearly every Bugzilla installation to want. > It's difficult, right. But we have something like that in place, right > now. Otherwise it wouldn't work the way we want it. Well, we don't *really* have something like that in place. What we have is a bunch of custom code in various places, and most of them fail silently instead of throwing descriptive errors. It's already caused me trouble personally, in some places, where I couldn't figure out what was going wrong because there were silent failures. > I'm not even sure we'd have a complicated $user->can_see_group telling > everything, but a $user->can_see_group_in_product (and possibly a > $user->can_see_group_on_bug, too, if there are role-specific > visibilities) or something along these lines. This isn't too hard. Well, we tend to need it in arbitrary locations, like Bugzilla::Search and editwhines.cgi. This is what brought up the discussion originally, actually. So we would need a generalized function. > I don't think we should disclose group names. Well, I'm not technically saying that we should disclose group names, but I get what you're saying. I personally think that the functionality trade-off is worth it, particularly in terms of the code simplicity it will allow us (the ability to use Bugzilla::Group->check everywhere to determine group existence is one advantage). -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. From bbaetz at gmail.com Tue Jul 20 12:13:53 2010 From: bbaetz at gmail.com (Bradley Baetz) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 22:13:53 +1000 Subject: Boolean Chart Redesign In-Reply-To: <4C45279E.2070105@redhat.com> References: <4C45279E.2070105@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 2:35 PM, Bernd Groh wrote: > Completely agree. Though I believe people indeed care how they can use the > URL in order to query bugzilla. I know a lot of people who don't use the UI, > but use the URL directly (me included), and for these people, the easier > they can represent a boolean string, the easier it is. So this has been a problem pretty much from day one. (Bugzilla used to support a URL param of sql= which it injected directly into the query to allow custom 'stuff'. This was not exactly secure (to say the least...) and was removed about eight years ago) The problem with being too generic is that MySQL's query optimiser sucks in a lot of respects, especially older versions which many people are running. In the boolean charts context, that's most likely to be around how MySQL does joins (basically, one index per table per query, so joining bugs to too many child tables causes full table scans). Its going to need a fair bit of careful design to end up with SQL that works well on large DBs. Bradley From ghendricks at novell.com Tue Jul 20 16:42:54 2010 From: ghendricks at novell.com (Gregary Hendricks) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 10:42:54 -0600 Subject: Boolean Chart Redesign In-Reply-To: <4C44E71F.6010502@redhat.com> References: <4C4229FE.3060706@bugzilla.org> <4C44E71F.6010502@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4C457DAE020000D200090670@soto.provo.novell.com> On Tue, 2010-07-20 at 10:00 +1000, Bernd Groh wrote: > To me, that would make the query less confusing. That would make it a lot easier to construct queries. And how would I like the UI to look? Well, it would have two parts. One part most people are familiar with, buttons, operators, and text fields to construct the query, and a big massive text box that gets filled as you construct the query. And if you don't really like to use all these buttons, fields and text boxes, then you can just write the query straight into the text box, and that's that. > I would second this. There are a number of applications I use that have an "advanced query builder" where there is basically a text box and a drag and drop type interface that "types" the query as you build it. This lets advanced users type it out themselves if they like. One option to getting around the "GET to long" issues is to POST and then store the saved query with a hash id and then users can simply share this short hashed URL instead of the huge one with all the parameters. Testopia does something similar with regular queries so that it doesn't run into the "This list is too big for bugzilla's little mind" problem. Sure it means there is at least one saved query per user, but it also means users can have their last search results show up on any computer they log in from. I echo the gratitude to Max for taking the time to tackle this issue. Keep it up. ++Greg From shimono at bug-ja.org Tue Jul 20 17:50:26 2010 From: shimono at bug-ja.org (Atsushi Shimono) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 10:50:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Atsushi Shimono wants to connect on LinkedIn Message-ID: <1029346472.7598147.1279648226071.JavaMail.app@ech3-cdn13.prod> LinkedIn ------------ I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - Atsushi Shimono Atsushi Shimono Researcher at Nano-Optonics Energy, Inc. Japan Confirm that you know Atsushi Shimono https://www.linkedin.com/e/pokjzi-gbv1iihg-z/isd/1484016866/dAgv8OyH/ ------ (c) 2010, LinkedIn Corporation _______________________________________________ dev-apps-bugzilla mailing list dev-apps-bugzilla at lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-bugzilla From wurblzap at gmail.com Tue Jul 20 19:48:31 2010 From: wurblzap at gmail.com (Marc Schumann) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 21:48:31 +0200 Subject: Group Name Guessing Disclosure Policy In-Reply-To: <4C4573F3.5090905@bugzilla.org> References: <4C44C5D0.3010808@bugzilla.org> <4C4573F3.5090905@bugzilla.org> Message-ID: 2010/7/20 Max Kanat-Alexander : > On 07/20/2010 12:12 AM, Marc Schumann wrote: >> That said, email_in.pl is another story. I can't see it used widely >> enough to warrant disclosing group names, though. > > ? ? ? ?It will be pretty widely used some day, I think, once it supports > reasonable security and basically allows people to reply to bugmail by > email. That's a feature that I expect nearly every Bugzilla installation > to want. I think so, too, that email_in.pl will be useful (and used) for replies. I don't think it'll see enough usage filing sec bugs, though. > silently instead of throwing descriptive errors. It's already caused me > trouble personally, in some places, where I couldn't figure out what was > going wrong because there were silent failures. Silent failures are a good error handling compromise for common usage. Dev hindrances can be alleviated by your proposed centralized methods and a way to ease debugging. >> I'm not even sure we'd have a complicated $user->can_see_group telling >> everything, but a $user->can_see_group_in_product (and possibly a >> $user->can_see_group_on_bug, too, if there are role-specific >> visibilities) or something along these lines. This isn't too hard. > > ? ? ? ?Well, we tend to need it in arbitrary locations, like Bugzilla::Search > and editwhines.cgi. This is what brought up the discussion originally, > actually. So we would need a generalized function. Yeah, editwhines.cgi is a good example. I'd expect it to be pretty much $user->can_see_group like -- isn't it? It eludes me how the logic can be all that difficult... Group existence and group visibility are two different things and deserve methods of their own :) Marc From mkanat at bugzilla.org Tue Jul 20 20:44:09 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 13:44:09 -0700 Subject: Group Name Guessing Disclosure Policy In-Reply-To: References: <4C44C5D0.3010808@bugzilla.org> <4C4573F3.5090905@bugzilla.org> Message-ID: <4C460A99.3040704@bugzilla.org> On 07/20/2010 12:48 PM, Marc Schumann wrote: > Yeah, editwhines.cgi is a good example. I'd expect it to be pretty > much $user->can_see_group like -- isn't it? It eludes me how the logic > can be all that difficult... The conditions under which a user can see a group name are ill-defined and very complex. The conditions I can think of off the top of my head are: A user can see a group's name if they can enter a bug in any product where that group is mandatory, shown, or default for them. A user can see a group's name if any bug that they have access to has OtherControl for that group, even if they are not in the group. A user can see a group's name if they have been CC'ed on or are the reporter of a bug that is restricted to a group that they normally cannot see. A user can see a group's name if they have editcomponents for any product. A user can see a group's name if they are in it directly, by inheritance, or by regex. A user can see a group's name if they have global editcomponents, editusers, creategroups, or are in the admin group. A user can see a group's name if any user with that group's icon has ever commented on any bug they can see. (Or it might be only the group description--I'm not sure, but that's just as bad.) In the future, these conditions will expand and likely become more complex. For example, depending on how we do flag requestee autocomplete, it's possible that users will be able to see the name of any group that is in the grantgroup of any flag on any bug they can see. In customized installations, there are likely to be additional conditions under which group names can be seen. Customizers (and future Bugzilla developers) are unlikely to remember or understand these extra conditions. So, instead of creating a performance-draining and extremely complex centralized method for determining all of the above, I figured I'd just modify our policy on the subject. -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. From lpsolit at gmail.com Tue Jul 20 22:10:41 2010 From: lpsolit at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?RnLDqWTDqXJpYyBCdWNsaW4=?=) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 00:10:41 +0200 Subject: Group Name Guessing Disclosure Policy In-Reply-To: <4C460A99.3040704@bugzilla.org> References: <4C44C5D0.3010808@bugzilla.org> <4C4573F3.5090905@bugzilla.org> <4C460A99.3040704@bugzilla.org> Message-ID: <4C461EE1.9090401@gmail.com> Le 20. 07. 10 22:44, Max Kanat-Alexander a ?crit : > The conditions under which a user can see a group name are ill-defined > and very complex. The conditions I can think of off the top of my head are: It is not very complex... > > A user can see a group's name if they can enter a bug in any product > where that group is mandatory, shown, or default for them. Mandatory groups are never displayed in bugs. About shown and default groups, all we want is $product->groups_available, which we already do. Here, group visibility doesn't matter and we display these group names in all cases. So this case doesn't need to be considered. > A user can see a group's name if any bug that they have access to has > OtherControl for that group, even if they are not in the group. We use $product->groups_available, as above. Also doesn't need to be considered. > A user can see a group's name if they have been CC'ed on or are the > reporter of a bug that is restricted to a group that they normally > cannot see. We use $product->groups_available, as above. Same conclusion. > A user can see a group's name if they have editcomponents for any product. All groups marked "Use For Bugs" are indeed visible to them, thanks to $product->group_controls. Doesn't need to be considered. If the poweruser tries to hack the URL, then we can tell him that either the group Foo doesn't exist, or is not a bug group. No need to check his relationship with the group. > A user can see a group's name if they are in it directly, by > inheritance, or by regex. We use $user->groups directly. Doesn't need to be considered. > A user can see a group's name if they have global editcomponents, > editusers, creategroups, or are in the admin group. It depends which admin page you are talking about, but it's either one of the method mentioned above, or simply Bugzilla::Group->get_all(), which do not need to be considered as these methods are all unrelated to your relationships with groups. > A user can see a group's name if any user with that group's icon has > ever commented on any bug they can see. (Or it might be only the group > description--I'm not sure, but that's just as bad.) That's a bug which should be filed and fixed. > In the future, these conditions will expand and likely become more > complex. For example, depending on how we do flag requestee > autocomplete, it's possible that users will be able to see the name of > any group that is in the grantgroup of any flag on any bug they can see. If we use autocompletion for requestees, then we don't need to disclose the group used as the grant group. If the user ignores autocompletion, then it's enough to tell him that the user he chooses has not the right privileges to grant the flag. Telling him that the user must be in the group Foo would be of no help. I know that's what the current error message says, but it can be reworded once autocompletion works for requestees. > In customized installations, there are likely to be additional > conditions under which group names can be seen. Then they would very likely use their own methods, or re-use one of the existing ones above, in which case the error message is totally under our control. > So, instead of creating a performance-draining and extremely complex > centralized method for determining all of the above, I figured I'd just > modify our policy on the subject. I still don't see the relationship with the original discussion, which is about disclosing the existence of groups. You need all the methods describe above, and all are pretty independent. Basically, you don't want to use Bug::Group->check() in non-admin pages, and admin pages already have their own methods and error messages can be worded accurately enough to not confuse the user, without disclosing the (in)existence of groups when that's not required. LpSolit From bgroh at redhat.com Tue Jul 20 22:18:19 2010 From: bgroh at redhat.com (Bernd Groh) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 08:18:19 +1000 Subject: Boolean Chart Redesign In-Reply-To: References: <4C45279E.2070105@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4C4620AB.2030508@redhat.com> Bradley Baetz wrote: > On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 2:35 PM, Bernd Groh wrote: > >> Completely agree. Though I believe people indeed care how they can use the >> URL in order to query bugzilla. I know a lot of people who don't use the UI, >> but use the URL directly (me included), and for these people, the easier >> they can represent a boolean string, the easier it is. >> > > So this has been a problem pretty much from day one. (Bugzilla used to > support a URL param of sql= which it injected directly into the > query to allow custom 'stuff'. This was not exactly secure (to say the > least...) and was removed about eight years ago) > > The problem with being too generic is that MySQL's query optimiser > sucks in a lot of respects, especially older versions which many > people are running. In the boolean charts context, that's most likely > to be around how MySQL does joins (basically, one index per table per > query, so joining bugs to too many child tables causes full table > scans). Its going to need a fair bit of careful design to end up with > SQL that works well on large DBs. > None of which should have anything to do with the boolean string one may like to submit. I wouldn't ever ask to allow for random sql to be injected into a query. That's just silly. Yet, people will want to query for quite complex configurations that aren't supported by the advanced search screen, and right now, aren't even supported or don't work properly with the Boolean charts. Right now, there's no way to retrieve a list of bugs for some quite valid "states" (state here referring to the state in a complex workflow that's determined by, for example, status, keyword combinations, flag combinations, a number of custom fields, etc.). In a lot of cases, Bugzilla isn't a stand-alone application, it's part of an entire workflow toolchain. Some of these workflow tools provide a view, and a very specific view, of a very particular data set of bugs within a very specific "state", and people would like all these applications to link back into bugzilla. And how do you link back into bugzilla? Well, with a URL. And no, not with a url that contains some random sql, or even should have any effect on the resulting sql, but with a url that describes the "state" of the relevant bugs in terms of status, keyword combinations, flag combinations, custom fields, etc. Or do you want to tell them that if that's what they need, they probably shouldn't use Bugzilla? Cheers, Bernd From mkanat at bugzilla.org Tue Jul 20 22:27:23 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 15:27:23 -0700 Subject: Group Name Guessing Disclosure Policy In-Reply-To: <4C461EE1.9090401@gmail.com> References: <4C44C5D0.3010808@bugzilla.org> <4C4573F3.5090905@bugzilla.org> <4C460A99.3040704@bugzilla.org> <4C461EE1.9090401@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4C4622CB.3000705@bugzilla.org> On 07/20/2010 03:10 PM, Fr?d?ric Buclin wrote: > Mandatory groups are never displayed in bugs. They are displayed in the XML, and they will be displayed in Bug.get. > About shown and default > groups, all we want is $product->groups_available, which we already do. But I'm talking about a generic case--are you saying that I should iterate all products in the database and call groups_available on them just to know if a group name is visible? >> A user can see a group's name if any user with that group's icon has >> ever commented on any bug they can see. (Or it might be only the group >> description--I'm not sure, but that's just as bad.) > > That's a bug which should be filed and fixed. How, by making the group icons not have a tooltip, thus making them rather hard to figure out? > If we use autocompletion for requestees, then we don't need to disclose > the group used as the grant group. It will be in the JSON-RPC call, if we standardize on group names instead of IDs for the API, which I want to do. >> In customized installations, there are likely to be additional >> conditions under which group names can be seen. > > Then they would very likely use their own methods, or re-use one of the > existing ones above, in which case the error message is totally under > our control. How many customized installations have you worked with or read the code of? I can promise you that they will have no idea they need to do anything about this. >> So, instead of creating a performance-draining and extremely complex >> centralized method for determining all of the above, I figured I'd just >> modify our policy on the subject. > > I still don't see the relationship with the original discussion, which > is about disclosing the existence of groups. Because Wurblzap was saying that a generic $user->can_see_group would be easy, which it would not be. What I want is excellent code simplicity and understandable feedback to the user when they make a mistake. Excellent code simplicity means a single method for determining the existence or non-existence of a group, just like we have for products. This is only possible if we change our policy. -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. From gerv at mozilla.org Wed Jul 21 00:14:52 2010 From: gerv at mozilla.org (Gervase Markham) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 17:14:52 -0700 Subject: Boolean Chart Redesign In-Reply-To: References: <4C4229FE.3060706@bugzilla.org> <4C44E71F.6010502@redhat.com> Message-ID: On 19/07/10 19:46, Max Kanat-Alexander wrote: > Also, some people may not be aware of this, but in future versions of > Bugzilla, the "Summary" box on the Advanced Search page will very likely > become a Quicksearch box. So you can construct your queries there in > addition to using the normal discrete fields. I assume in that case it will no longer be (mis-)labelled "Summary"? :-) Gerv _______________________________________________ dev-apps-bugzilla mailing list dev-apps-bugzilla at lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-bugzilla From mkanat at bugzilla.org Wed Jul 21 00:16:41 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 17:16:41 -0700 Subject: Boolean Chart Redesign In-Reply-To: References: <4C4229FE.3060706@bugzilla.org> <4C44E71F.6010502@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4C463C69.6040502@bugzilla.org> On 07/20/2010 05:14 PM, Gervase Markham wrote: > I assume in that case it will no longer be (mis-)labelled "Summary"? :-) Of course. :-) -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. From gerv at mozilla.org Wed Jul 21 00:17:50 2010 From: gerv at mozilla.org (Gervase Markham) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 17:17:50 -0700 Subject: Group Name Guessing Disclosure Policy In-Reply-To: References: <4C44C5D0.3010808@bugzilla.org> <4C4573F3.5090905@bugzilla.org> Message-ID: <4C463CAE.5070806@mozilla.org> On 20/07/10 13:44, Max Kanat-Alexander wrote: > So, instead of creating a performance-draining and extremely complex > centralized method for determining all of the above, I figured I'd just > modify our policy on the subject. I'm normally the last one to suggest this, but: could we have an admin pref "Group names are secret"? Have it on, and you have to deal with vague error messages and the possibility that a typo will accidentally reveal a bug. Have it off, and, well, your group names aren't secret. Gerv _______________________________________________ dev-apps-bugzilla mailing list dev-apps-bugzilla at lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-bugzilla From gerv at mozilla.org Wed Jul 21 00:19:15 2010 From: gerv at mozilla.org (Gervase Markham) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 17:19:15 -0700 Subject: Boolean Chart Redesign In-Reply-To: References: <4C450F7D.5010503@bugzilla.org> Message-ID: <4C463D03.3000401@mozilla.org> On 19/07/10 20:29, Guy Pyrzak wrote: > So I thought I'd chime in and say, UI for boolean charts will basically be > worked on independently of whatever max does with the back end. OK, awesome. I think that's the right approach but, as it requires Javascript, I wanted to make sure we'd agreed that that was OK up-front. Gerv _______________________________________________ dev-apps-bugzilla mailing list dev-apps-bugzilla at lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-bugzilla From mkanat at bugzilla.org Wed Jul 21 00:27:24 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 17:27:24 -0700 Subject: Group Name Guessing Disclosure Policy In-Reply-To: <4C463CAE.5070806@mozilla.org> References: <4C44C5D0.3010808@bugzilla.org> <4C4573F3.5090905@bugzilla.org> <4C463CAE.5070806@mozilla.org> Message-ID: <4C463EEC.4020308@bugzilla.org> On 07/20/2010 05:17 PM, Gervase Markham wrote: > I'm normally the last one to suggest this, but: could we have an admin > pref "Group names are secret"? Have it on, and you have to deal with > vague error messages and the possibility that a typo will accidentally > reveal a bug. Have it off, and, well, your group names aren't secret. We could, but that would add even *more* code complexity. Then we'd have to implement alternate code for both cases in every single place that we check the existence of a group in Bugzilla. -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. From lpsolit at gmail.com Wed Jul 21 12:52:14 2010 From: lpsolit at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?RnLDqWTDqXJpYyBCdWNsaW4=?=) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:52:14 +0200 Subject: Group Name Guessing Disclosure Policy In-Reply-To: <4C4622CB.3000705@bugzilla.org> References: <4C44C5D0.3010808@bugzilla.org> <4C4573F3.5090905@bugzilla.org> <4C460A99.3040704@bugzilla.org> <4C461EE1.9090401@gmail.com> <4C4622CB.3000705@bugzilla.org> Message-ID: <4C46ED7E.4060703@gmail.com> Le 21. 07. 10 00:27, Max Kanat-Alexander a ?crit : > But I'm talking about a generic case--are you saying that I should > iterate all products in the database and call groups_available on them > just to know if a group name is visible? A group name being visible depends on the context. > How, by making the group icons not have a tooltip, thus making them > rather hard to figure out? You don't display the icon at all. > How many customized installations have you worked with or read the code > of? I can promise you that they will have no idea they need to do > anything about this. That's not your problem. And if methods are well documented, then this would mitigate the risk a bit. Basically, you would have two main method to use: $user->can_see_group(), and Bugzilla::Group->check(). > Because Wurblzap was saying that a generic $user->can_see_group would > be easy, which it would not be. I think it's easy too. For the cases you are thinking about, you don't need any check at all. LpSolit From mkanat at bugzilla.org Wed Jul 21 13:34:27 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 06:34:27 -0700 Subject: Group Name Guessing Disclosure Policy In-Reply-To: <4C46ED7E.4060703@gmail.com> References: <4C44C5D0.3010808@bugzilla.org> <4C4573F3.5090905@bugzilla.org> <4C460A99.3040704@bugzilla.org> <4C461EE1.9090401@gmail.com> <4C4622CB.3000705@bugzilla.org> <4C46ED7E.4060703@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4C46F763.40605@bugzilla.org> On 07/21/2010 05:52 AM, Fr?d?ric Buclin wrote: > A group name being visible depends on the context. Yeah, that's more or less what I was saying. >> How, by making the group icons not have a tooltip, thus making them >> rather hard to figure out? > > You don't display the icon at all. I don't think that's a very good solution--it sounds like you're saying that we should remove an entire feature just because some people might mis-use it and expose some subset of information that some small number of installations might consider confidential. > That's not your problem. And if methods are well documented, then this > would mitigate the risk a bit. Basically, you would have two main method > to use: $user->can_see_group(), and Bugzilla::Group->check(). Mmm, what are you thinking of as the implementation for $user->can_see_group? -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. From gerv at mozilla.org Wed Jul 21 17:16:43 2010 From: gerv at mozilla.org (Gervase Markham) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 10:16:43 -0700 Subject: Group Name Guessing Disclosure Policy In-Reply-To: References: <4C44C5D0.3010808@bugzilla.org> <4C4573F3.5090905@bugzilla.org> <4C463CAE.5070806@mozilla.org> Message-ID: <4C472B7B.80804@mozilla.org> On 20/07/10 17:27, Max Kanat-Alexander wrote: > We could, but that would add even *more* code complexity. Then we'd > have to implement alternate code for both cases in every single place > that we check the existence of a group in Bugzilla. Surely just in the error messages? If group names are secret, we use generic messages; if they are not, we use specific ones. Or are there other areas of data leak? Gerv _______________________________________________ dev-apps-bugzilla mailing list dev-apps-bugzilla at lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-bugzilla From gerv at mozilla.org Wed Jul 21 19:55:06 2010 From: gerv at mozilla.org (Gervase Markham) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 12:55:06 -0700 Subject: "Improving Bugzilla" Message-ID: <7didnaKV4vXWxdrRnZ2dnUVZ_jqdnZ2d@mozilla.org> Some thoughtful points from David Eaves: http://eaves.ca/2010/07/20/some-thoughts-on-improving-bugzilla/ Gerv _______________________________________________ dev-apps-bugzilla mailing list dev-apps-bugzilla at lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-bugzilla From mkanat at bugzilla.org Wed Jul 21 23:26:09 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 16:26:09 -0700 Subject: Group Name Guessing Disclosure Policy In-Reply-To: <4C472B7B.80804@mozilla.org> References: <4C44C5D0.3010808@bugzilla.org> <4C4573F3.5090905@bugzilla.org> <4C463CAE.5070806@mozilla.org> <4C472B7B.80804@mozilla.org> Message-ID: <4C478211.7040304@bugzilla.org> On 07/21/2010 10:16 AM, Gervase Markham wrote: > Surely just in the error messages? If group names are secret, we use > generic messages; if they are not, we use specific ones. Yeah, that might be possible. I doubt anybody would turn off the parameter, though, and it would have to be on by default, so that we can ship secure. > Or are there other areas of data leak? To some degree, until I look over all of Bugzilla and am actually implementing the resulting policy everywhere, it's hard to say. Also, if we had such a parameter, I'm sure that future implementors would get confused about how and when to apply it, just like they get confused about what visibilitygroups and strict_isolation mean now. (Both of those parameters are applied inconsistently and in different, incompatible ways in different contexts.) -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. From lpsolit at gmail.com Wed Jul 21 23:37:23 2010 From: lpsolit at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?RnLDqWTDqXJpYyBCdWNsaW4=?=) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 01:37:23 +0200 Subject: Group Name Guessing Disclosure Policy In-Reply-To: <4C478211.7040304@bugzilla.org> References: <4C44C5D0.3010808@bugzilla.org> <4C4573F3.5090905@bugzilla.org> <4C463CAE.5070806@mozilla.org> <4C472B7B.80804@mozilla.org> <4C478211.7040304@bugzilla.org> Message-ID: <4C4784B3.3000306@gmail.com> Le 22. 07. 10 01:26, Max Kanat-Alexander a ?crit : > Yeah, that might be possible. I doubt anybody would turn off the > parameter, though, and it would have to be on by default, so that we can > ship secure. I don't think a new parameter is a good idea, because error messages would be inconsistent between installations (maybe that's very minor, but this looks confusing to me). From a technical point of view, a new parameter doesn't fix anything, and doesn't reduce code complexity. LpSolit From mkanat at bugzilla.org Thu Jul 22 02:54:16 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:54:16 -0700 Subject: Apache config changed on 4.0/branch Message-ID: <4C47B2D8.6080207@bugzilla.org> Hey folks. If you're running under Apache with mod_cgi and you're running the very latest 4.0 or trunk code, you should be aware that the required AllowOverride configuration has changed. It now also needs FileInfo and Indexes. (This is in the documentation, also.) mod_perl users do not need to make any adjustments, they will get this change automatically. -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. From oliver at lippert.it Thu Jul 22 06:54:07 2010 From: oliver at lippert.it (lippoliv) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 23:54:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Translating bug_severity in the newchangedmail.txt.html Message-ID: Hey there, I'm a german software developer, we're using Bugzilla 3.0.4 (with several own changes) and just would like to ask: There are a few templates to bugzilla that enables to translate bugzilla into several languages. Now there is a sucking problem: the newchangedmail. The content itself isn't generated in an template, it's in the BugMail.pm so I can't edit the textcontent really simple. What I would like to do: Replace all hard-coded severity names into the variable one out of the field-descs.none.tmpl because bugzilla isn't able to do it on it's own... I'd added $vars->{'states'} = $dbh->selectall_arrayref("SELECT value AS name, sortkey FROM bug_severity ORDER BY sortkey, value"); to the whineatnews.pl right befor the my $msg; my $template = Bugzilla->template_inner($user->settings->{'lang'}- >{'value'}); $template->process("email/whine.txt.tmpl", $vars, \$msg) or die($template->error()); but this wouldn't work, I'd took it out of the editvalues.cgi at unless ($action) { FieldMustExist($field); # Now we know the $field is valid. trick_taint($field); my $fieldvalues = $dbh->selectall_arrayref("SELECT value AS name, sortkey" . " FROM $field ORDER BY sortkey, value", {Slice =>{}}); so there it works, in the whineatnews.pl it doesn't. Did anyone got what I would like to do (I can't descripe my problems sometimes) and may: did somebody be able to help me? Warm regards, Oli _______________________________________________ dev-apps-bugzilla mailing list dev-apps-bugzilla at lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-bugzilla From lpsolit at gmail.com Thu Jul 22 07:01:04 2010 From: lpsolit at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fr=E9d=E9ric_Buclin?=) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 09:01:04 +0200 Subject: Translating bug_severity in the newchangedmail.txt.html In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C47ECB0.2070108@gmail.com> Le 22. 07. 10 08:54, lippoliv a ?crit : > Now there is a sucking problem: the newchangedmail. That's an old and well-known problem. In short: this is not trivial, see https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=215210. There is a hope to see this fixed in Bugzilla 4.0, but more likely in 4.2. For your 3.0.4 installation, I think there is nothing you can do about it, at least nothing simple comes to mind. LpSolit From oliver at lippert.it Thu Jul 22 07:27:54 2010 From: oliver at lippert.it (lippoliv) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 00:27:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Translating bug_severity in the newchangedmail.txt.html References: Message-ID: Just noticed & for correcting myself: not bug_severity, its the resolution-field what I mine :) _______________________________________________ dev-apps-bugzilla mailing list dev-apps-bugzilla at lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-bugzilla From mkanat at bugzilla.org Thu Jul 22 11:59:25 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 04:59:25 -0700 Subject: New bugzilla.org header logo! Message-ID: <4C48329D.4090102@bugzilla.org> Hey folks! Jon Pink of J.Pink Design ( http://www.jpink.co.uk/ ), who did our new front-page icons, also designed us a new header logo for bugzilla.org! Check it out: http://www.bugzilla.org/ You might have to refresh the page if you still see the old header logo and "Bugzilla" text. -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. From ghendricks at novell.com Thu Jul 22 15:36:20 2010 From: ghendricks at novell.com (Gregary Hendricks) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 09:36:20 -0600 Subject: New bugzilla.org header logo! Message-ID: <4C481114020000D200090D21@soto.provo.novell.com> On Thu, 2010-07-22 at 04:59 -0700, Max Kanat-Alexander wrote: > Hey folks! Jon Pink of J.Pink Design ( http://www.jpink.co.uk/ ), who > did our new front-page icons, also designed us a new header logo for > bugzilla.org! Check it out: > > http://www.bugzilla.org/ > I like it! :D ++Greg From guy.pyrzak at gmail.com Thu Jul 22 16:47:00 2010 From: guy.pyrzak at gmail.com (Guy Pyrzak) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 09:47:00 -0700 Subject: New bugzilla.org header logo! In-Reply-To: <4C481114020000D200090D21@soto.provo.novell.com> References: <4C481114020000D200090D21@soto.provo.novell.com> Message-ID: Nicely done mr pink! -Guy On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 8:36 AM, Gregary Hendricks wrote: > On Thu, 2010-07-22 at 04:59 -0700, Max Kanat-Alexander wrote: > > Hey folks! Jon Pink of J.Pink Design ( http://www.jpink.co.uk/ ), > who > > did our new front-page icons, also designed us a new header logo for > > bugzilla.org! Check it out: > > > > http://www.bugzilla.org/ > > > > I like it! :D > > ++Greg > > - > To view or change your list settings, click here: > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From timello at gmail.com Fri Jul 23 00:08:23 2010 From: timello at gmail.com (Tiago Mello) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 21:08:23 -0300 Subject: New bugzilla.org header logo! In-Reply-To: <4C48329D.4090102@bugzilla.org> References: <4C48329D.4090102@bugzilla.org> Message-ID: <1279843488-sup-7185@acme> Excerpts from Max Kanat-Alexander's message of Thu Jul 22 08:59:25 -0300 2010: > Hey folks! Jon Pink of J.Pink Design ( http://www.jpink.co.uk/ ), who > did our new front-page icons, also designed us a new header logo for > bugzilla.org! Check it out: > > http://www.bugzilla.org/ Congrats! It looks modern! :) -- Tiago Mello [:timello] From lajjr at yahoo.com Fri Jul 23 03:34:50 2010 From: lajjr at yahoo.com (Leo Jackson) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 20:34:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Self-Introduction: Leo Jackson Message-ID: <570765.30026.qm@web84301.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Full Name: Leo Jackson Your IRC nick (lajjr) on irc.mozilla.org Scranton, Pa USA EST Programmer 26 years 22 Professionally What do you want to help out with? Bugs, Patches, UI, Features Reviews down the road anything not sure yet. Historical qualifications What other technical projects have you worked on in the past? Well also private maintainer of some projects. FSF, GNU eg:Maverik, Leg, AV site, www.gnu.org, FSF webmaster. Admin of some projects. Some third party items under private contract. I'm also on launchpad.net What level and type of computer skills do you have? Proficient Multi Task. What other skills do you have that might be applicable? User interface design, other so-called soft skills (people skills), etc. GUI, UI, I like to do. Code in c. c++, python, perl, ruby, lua , pike, guile, a lot to list besides this right now. Add also html, xhtml. too many. I work with others on projects easily, and I help where I can. Regards, Leo Jackson From mkanat at bugzilla.org Fri Jul 23 03:39:41 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 20:39:41 -0700 Subject: Self-Introduction: Leo Jackson In-Reply-To: <570765.30026.qm@web84301.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <570765.30026.qm@web84301.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4C490EFD.9020402@bugzilla.org> Hey Leo. Wow, welcome! :-) That's a pretty impressive self-introduction. :-) Glad to have you, and let us know if you have any questions! -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. From oliver at lippert.it Fri Jul 23 08:27:45 2010 From: oliver at lippert.it (lippoliv) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 01:27:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Writing multilanguage extensions Message-ID: <741c8678-e40c-457f-9fbe-c0843b3088c3@q22g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Hey there, currently I'm writing my fifth bugzilla extension, and now it is the same problem again: multilanguage. As you may now, I'm a !german! software developer and I'm working for the DAVID GmbH (http://www.david-bs.de [currently just an german website]). We're using Bugzilla 3.0.4 with Germzilla (version unknown) which is simply an german-translation-template-package of Bugzilla :) So now we're near to the problem: there is template/LANG/(default| custom)/mytemplatefile.html.tmpl; what is the equal to extensions? If I have extensions/myExtension/template/de/irgendwas extensions/myExtension/template/en/irgendwas and the extension should just run "alert('hi');" it would be displayed in two times, one for extensions/template/de and one for extensions/ template/en ... So now I have to display an message in my new extension, if the user is from germany, the message should be displayed in german, if the user is not from germany, the message should be displayed in english. Is there anyway to make this get real? Warm reguards an thanks for helping me :) _______________________________________________ dev-apps-bugzilla mailing list dev-apps-bugzilla at lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-bugzilla From mkanat at bugzilla.org Fri Jul 23 09:33:46 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 02:33:46 -0700 Subject: Writing multilanguage extensions In-Reply-To: <741c8678-e40c-457f-9fbe-c0843b3088c3@q22g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> References: <741c8678-e40c-457f-9fbe-c0843b3088c3@q22g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <4C4961FA.4090302@bugzilla.org> On 07/23/2010 01:27 AM, lippoliv wrote: > currently I'm writing my fifth bugzilla extension, Wow, that's awesome! :-) > We're using Bugzilla 3.0.4 Ah, that's your problem. The extensions system was completely re-written in Bugzilla 3.6, and now works much better. You should upgrade to 3.6. -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. From oliver at lippert.it Fri Jul 23 09:44:26 2010 From: oliver at lippert.it (lippoliv) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 02:44:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Writing multilanguage extensions References: <741c8678-e40c-457f-9fbe-c0843b3088c3@q22g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> <8b52905c-9222-4890-a245-f715167ea284@y11g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: On 23 Jul., 11:43, lippoliv wrote: > On 23 Jul., 11:33, Max Kanat-Alexander wrote: > > > On 07/23/2010 01:27 AM, lippoliv wrote: > > > > currently I'm writing my fifth bugzilla extension, > > > ? ? ? ? Wow, that's awesome! :-) > > But didn't say anything :P :) > > > > We're using Bugzilla 3.0.4 > > > ? ? ? ? Ah, that's your problem. The extensions system was completely > > re-written in Bugzilla 3.6, and now works much better. You should > > upgrade to 3.6. > > And this is the problem: in fact, that I customized bugzilla over one > and a half year, its much different to the current version, we've > things like PDF-export of Bug-Lists, some Bugfixes, a completly > different design (which needed to modify the templates), sortable > buglists (ASC as well as DESC)... > It's a lot of work to update (because I don't know bugzilla when I > start to edit it, didn't used extensions for example), this are high > costs for my employer... > > So may I have to download the newest version and look how hard it is > to upgrade :/ > > So then say: Is this language-switch working in BZ 3.6 AND when does > the next version of Bugzilla comes out? PS: THANKS Max, your very active in here :) _______________________________________________ dev-apps-bugzilla mailing list dev-apps-bugzilla at lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-bugzilla From oliver at lippert.it Fri Jul 23 09:43:42 2010 From: oliver at lippert.it (lippoliv) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 02:43:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Writing multilanguage extensions References: <741c8678-e40c-457f-9fbe-c0843b3088c3@q22g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <8b52905c-9222-4890-a245-f715167ea284@y11g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> On 23 Jul., 11:33, Max Kanat-Alexander wrote: > On 07/23/2010 01:27 AM, lippoliv wrote: > > > currently I'm writing my fifth bugzilla extension, > > ? ? ? ? Wow, that's awesome! :-) But didn't say anything :P :) > > We're using Bugzilla 3.0.4 > > ? ? ? ? Ah, that's your problem. The extensions system was completely > re-written in Bugzilla 3.6, and now works much better. You should > upgrade to 3.6. > And this is the problem: in fact, that I customized bugzilla over one and a half year, its much different to the current version, we've things like PDF-export of Bug-Lists, some Bugfixes, a completly different design (which needed to modify the templates), sortable buglists (ASC as well as DESC)... It's a lot of work to update (because I don't know bugzilla when I start to edit it, didn't used extensions for example), this are high costs for my employer... So may I have to download the newest version and look how hard it is to upgrade :/ So then say: Is this language-switch working in BZ 3.6 AND when does the next version of Bugzilla comes out? _______________________________________________ dev-apps-bugzilla mailing list dev-apps-bugzilla at lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-bugzilla From wurblzap at gmail.com Fri Jul 23 09:48:20 2010 From: wurblzap at gmail.com (Marc Schumann) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 11:48:20 +0200 Subject: Writing multilanguage extensions In-Reply-To: <741c8678-e40c-457f-9fbe-c0843b3088c3@q22g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> References: <741c8678-e40c-457f-9fbe-c0843b3088c3@q22g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Oliver, yeah, your easiest way probably is upgrading. Btw, you can find your German translation's version in template/de/default/global/gzversion.html.tmpl. It's being displayed in the top right corner of Bugzilla's front page, too. Regards Marc 2010/7/23 lippoliv : > As you may now, I'm a !german! software developer and I'm working for > the DAVID GmbH (http://www.david-bs.de [currently just an german > website]). We're using Bugzilla 3.0.4 with Germzilla (version unknown) > which is simply an german-translation-template-package of Bugzilla :) [...] > Is there anyway to make this get real? _______________________________________________ dev-apps-bugzilla mailing list dev-apps-bugzilla at lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-bugzilla From mkanat at bugzilla.org Fri Jul 23 09:52:22 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 02:52:22 -0700 Subject: Writing multilanguage extensions In-Reply-To: <8b52905c-9222-4890-a245-f715167ea284@y11g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> References: <741c8678-e40c-457f-9fbe-c0843b3088c3@q22g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> <8b52905c-9222-4890-a245-f715167ea284@y11g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <4C496656.4050202@bugzilla.org> On 07/23/2010 02:43 AM, lippoliv wrote: >>> currently I'm writing my fifth bugzilla extension, >> >> Wow, that's awesome! :-) > > But didn't say anything :P :) Hahaha. Well, I think it's cool that you've written so many extensions. Most people haven't written any. And I wrote the new Extensions system for 3.6, so I like it when people write extensions (although more when people write using the new system, of course :-) ). > It's a lot of work to update (because I don't know bugzilla when I > start to edit it, didn't used extensions for example), this are high > costs for my employer... Yeah, I completely understand. :-) I know a lot of people in similar situations--I've done a lot of upgrades of customized installations for clients, bringing forward all the customizations and so forth. > So then say: Is this language-switch working in BZ 3.6 AND when does > the next version of Bugzilla comes out? Yes, Bugzilla 3.6 Extensions are fully localizable, and if you find that they're not, then it's a bug and we'll fix it. We're hoping to have Bugzilla 4.0 in November, but that's a really vague estimate right now. I can't make any promises or guarantees. -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. From oliver at lippert.it Fri Jul 23 10:17:27 2010 From: oliver at lippert.it (lippoliv) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 03:17:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Writing multilanguage extensions References: <741c8678-e40c-457f-9fbe-c0843b3088c3@q22g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> <8b52905c-9222-4890-a245-f715167ea284@y11g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: > ? ? ? ? Hahaha. Well, I think it's cool that you've written so many extensions. > Most people haven't written any. And I wrote the new Extensions system > for 3.6, so I like it when people write extensions (although more when > people write using the new system, of course :-) ). Yea I remember, today in the mornig I read your post in this mailing- list about rewriting the extension-system, but then I don't know, that upgrading my bugzilla would be the only way to fix my problems... > ? ? ? ? We're hoping to have Bugzilla 4.0 in November, but that's a really > vague estimate right now. I can't make any promises or guarantees. That would be nice, getting Bugzilla 4.0 this year because on 31th of december my employment is "running out", so if I start migrating to BZ4.0 on start of December, may I'am not finished then and I could stay in this company :) I'd just tested 3.6 on ?landfill.bugzilla.org? and I think may we're upgrading to this version of bugzilla, but thats not my decission. Is there a book about changing the bugzilla design / customizing bugzilla at all? _______________________________________________ dev-apps-bugzilla mailing list dev-apps-bugzilla at lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-bugzilla From mkanat at bugzilla.org Fri Jul 23 10:28:26 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 03:28:26 -0700 Subject: Writing multilanguage extensions In-Reply-To: References: <741c8678-e40c-457f-9fbe-c0843b3088c3@q22g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> <8b52905c-9222-4890-a245-f715167ea284@y11g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <4C496ECA.3050303@bugzilla.org> On 07/23/2010 03:17 AM, lippoliv wrote: > Yea I remember, today in the mornig I read your post in this mailing- > list about rewriting the extension-system, but then I don't know, that > upgrading my bugzilla would be the only way to fix my problems... Ah, yeah. Well, hopefully upgrading will also get you some other good things, too. > That would be nice, getting Bugzilla 4.0 this year because on 31th of > december my employment is "running out", so if I start migrating to > BZ4.0 on start of December, may I'am not finished then and I could > stay in this company :) That'd be good indeed, I'm sure! :-) > I'd just tested 3.6 on ?landfill.bugzilla.org? and I think may we're > upgrading to this version of bugzilla, but thats not my decission. Okay. :-) > Is there a book about changing the bugzilla design / customizing > bugzilla at all? No, but starting with 3.6, there are detailed docs for the Extensions system: http://www.bugzilla.org/docs/3.6/en/html/api/Bugzilla/Extension.html -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. From trishabcarson at gmail.com Sat Jul 24 08:57:55 2010 From: trishabcarson at gmail.com (Trisha B. Carson) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 01:57:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Online Adult Dating Message-ID: The Ten Reasons why Extremely Intelligent Men Fail With Women... What to do about it? I have been teaching men how to come to be more than success with women and to date during various years now... and one "hyphen of problem" maintains only to rise time and again... and on and time and again and really amazes myself. http://www.adultxdating.us/blogs/online-adult-dating-some-time-smart-men-can-not-get-succeed/ http://www.adultxdating.us/blogs/adult-online-speed-dating-sites/ http://www.adultxdating.us/blogs/credibility-to-an-adult-singles-online-dating-profile/ http://www.adultxdating.us/blogs/online-adult-dating-profile-more-answering-for-sex/ _______________________________________________ dev-apps-bugzilla mailing list dev-apps-bugzilla at lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-bugzilla From sbodomerle at gmail.com Sat Jul 24 15:02:45 2010 From: sbodomerle at gmail.com (Sandor Bodo-Merle) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 17:02:45 +0200 Subject: Apache config changed on 4.0/branch In-Reply-To: <4C47B2D8.6080207@bugzilla.org> References: <4C47B2D8.6080207@bugzilla.org> Message-ID: Also that change requires mod_expires and mod_headers to be enabled on apache. On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 4:54 AM, Max Kanat-Alexander wrote: > Hey folks. If you're running under Apache with mod_cgi and you're > running the very latest 4.0 or trunk code, you should be aware that the > required AllowOverride configuration has changed. It now also needs > FileInfo and Indexes. (This is in the documentation, also.) > > mod_perl users do not need to make any adjustments, they will get > this > change automatically. > > -Max > -- > http://www.everythingsolved.com/ > Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. > - > To view or change your list settings, click here: > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkanat at bugzilla.org Mon Jul 26 09:46:52 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 02:46:52 -0700 Subject: Vacation Message-ID: <4C4D598C.2030408@bugzilla.org> Hey folks. I'm going on a brief vacation from Tuesday to Friday this week--going to go see some theater in Ashland, Oregon. :-) (There's a really incredible Shakespeare Festival there.) As a result, I will only be available occasionally, and mostly at night, for the rest of this week. So if you're wondering why I'm not around as much, that's why! :-) -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. From mkanat at bugzilla.org Tue Jul 27 23:48:17 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 16:48:17 -0700 Subject: Bugzilla Users & Administrators Group, August 4! Message-ID: <4C4F7041.8030100@bugzilla.org> Hey everybody! Just wanted to remind everybody that the Bugzilla Users & Administrators Group meeting in San Francisco is coming up on August 4! More info here: http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event/6584059 -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. From tm at sci.fi Wed Jul 28 03:53:12 2010 From: tm at sci.fi (Teemu Mannermaa) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 06:53:12 +0300 Subject: New bugzilla.org header logo! In-Reply-To: <4C48329D.4090102@bugzilla.org> References: <4C48329D.4090102@bugzilla.org> Message-ID: <4C4FA9A8.3050109@sci.fi> On 22.7.2010 14:59, Max Kanat-Alexander wrote: > did our new front-page icons, also designed us a new header logo for .. > You might have to refresh the page if you still see the old header logo > and "Bugzilla" text. Hmm, I still keep seeing the old Buggie logo by Dave Shea even if I refresh. Is this site behind some funky Mozilla load balancer and that has not yet update itself in Europe site or something? -- Teemu Mannermaa System Specialist "Anything is possible but probabilities vary." From mkanat at bugzilla.org Wed Jul 28 06:02:24 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 23:02:24 -0700 Subject: New bugzilla.org header logo! In-Reply-To: <4C4FA9A8.3050109@sci.fi> References: <4C48329D.4090102@bugzilla.org> <4C4FA9A8.3050109@sci.fi> Message-ID: <4C4FC7F0.6090209@bugzilla.org> On 07/27/2010 08:53 PM, Teemu Mannermaa wrote: > Hmm, I still keep seeing the old Buggie logo by Dave Shea even if I > refresh. Is this site behind some funky Mozilla load balancer and that > has not yet update itself in Europe site or something? It's the logo and text in the header that's changed, not the logo in the middle of the page. -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. From tm at sci.fi Wed Jul 28 15:07:44 2010 From: tm at sci.fi (Teemu Mannermaa) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 18:07:44 +0300 Subject: New bugzilla.org header logo! In-Reply-To: <4C4FC7F0.6090209@bugzilla.org> References: <4C48329D.4090102@bugzilla.org> <4C4FA9A8.3050109@sci.fi> <4C4FC7F0.6090209@bugzilla.org> Message-ID: <4C5047C0.90400@sci.fi> On 28.7.2010 9:02, Max Kanat-Alexander wrote: > On 07/27/2010 08:53 PM, Teemu Mannermaa wrote: >> Hmm, I still keep seeing the old Buggie logo by Dave Shea even if I > It's the logo and text in the header that's changed, not the logo in the > middle of the page. Yes, and the one on the header looks almost exactly like the one the middle of the page. A bit different background colors so maybe that is the change? Or do you mean that the text "Bugzilla" is now also part of the image (which is bad practice, IMHO) and might be more stylistic? If not then I have no idea what has changed, sorry. :) -- Teemu Mannermaa System Specialist "Anything is possible but probabilities vary." From lpsolit at gmail.com Wed Jul 28 16:11:43 2010 From: lpsolit at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?RnLDqWTDqXJpYyBCdWNsaW4=?=) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 18:11:43 +0200 Subject: New bugzilla.org header logo! In-Reply-To: <4C5047C0.90400@sci.fi> References: <4C48329D.4090102@bugzilla.org> <4C4FA9A8.3050109@sci.fi> <4C4FC7F0.6090209@bugzilla.org> <4C5047C0.90400@sci.fi> Message-ID: <4C5056BF.5060600@gmail.com> Le 28. 07. 10 17:07, Teemu Mannermaa a ?crit : > Yes, and the one on the header looks almost exactly like the one the > middle of the page. A bit different background colors so maybe that is > the change? Not only the background is different, but the image itself is too. And yes, now it looks very close to the one in the middle of the page, which wasn't the case previously. Also, the font used for the word "Bugzilla" in the header is different from the old one. LpSolit From mkanat at bugzilla.org Thu Jul 29 07:17:21 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 00:17:21 -0700 Subject: New bugzilla.org header logo! In-Reply-To: <4C5047C0.90400@sci.fi> References: <4C48329D.4090102@bugzilla.org> <4C4FA9A8.3050109@sci.fi> <4C4FC7F0.6090209@bugzilla.org> <4C5047C0.90400@sci.fi> Message-ID: <4C512B01.9060502@bugzilla.org> On 07/28/2010 08:07 AM, Teemu Mannermaa wrote: > Or do you mean that the text "Bugzilla" is now also part of > the image The text "Bugzilla" has always been part of the image, FWIW. -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too. From jochen.wiedmann at gmail.com Fri Jul 30 08:26:35 2010 From: jochen.wiedmann at gmail.com (Jochen Wiedmann) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 10:26:35 +0200 Subject: Cleaning series_data Message-ID: Hi, I am currently preparing a Bugzilla migration. Unfortunately, migrating the data takes several hours, mainly due to the table series_data being converted to InnoDB (6-8 hours) and to UTF8 (same). Is it possible to purge this data before the migration and run "collectstats.pl --regenerate" afterwards? If so, what do I need to do? My guess is that I need at least to purge other tables too. Thanks, Jochen -- Germanys national anthem is the most boring in the world - how telling! From lpsolit at gmail.com Fri Jul 30 10:58:13 2010 From: lpsolit at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?RnLDqWTDqXJpYyBCdWNsaW4=?=) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 12:58:13 +0200 Subject: Cleaning series_data In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C52B045.5000601@gmail.com> Le 30. 07. 10 10:26, Jochen Wiedmann a ?crit : > Is it possible to purge this data before the migration and run > "collectstats.pl --regenerate" afterwards? collectstats.pl --regenerate will only regenerate data for old charts, not data for new charts. So you would loose a lot of data if you purge the series_data table. I'm surprised it takes so long for the conversion as this table mostly contains integers. Not sure what's the best thing to do, though. Maybe you could store the series_data table elsewhere, upgrade your DB with an empty series_data table, then copy the content of the copied table into the upgraded (and empty) one. As there is a series_date column, there is no risk to conflict with new data which could be added while you populate this table. LpSolit From jochen.wiedmann at gmail.com Fri Jul 30 12:01:32 2010 From: jochen.wiedmann at gmail.com (Jochen Wiedmann) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 14:01:32 +0200 Subject: Cleaning series_data In-Reply-To: <4C52B045.5000601@gmail.com> References: <4C52B045.5000601@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the suggestion, I'll try that. 2010/7/30 Fr?d?ric Buclin : > Le 30. 07. 10 10:26, Jochen Wiedmann a ?crit : >> Is it possible to purge this data before the migration and run >> "collectstats.pl --regenerate" afterwards? > > collectstats.pl --regenerate will only regenerate data for old charts, > not data for new charts. So you would loose a lot of data if you purge > the series_data table. I'm surprised it takes so long for the conversion > as this table mostly contains integers. Not sure what's the best thing > to do, though. > > Maybe you could store the series_data table elsewhere, upgrade your DB > with an empty series_data table, then copy the content of the copied > table into the upgraded (and empty) one. As there is a series_date > column, there is no risk to conflict with new data which could be added > while you populate this table. > > > LpSolit > - > To view or change your list settings, click here: > > -- Germanys national anthem is the most boring in the world - how telling! From dmarshal at yahoo-inc.com Fri Jul 30 18:37:56 2010 From: dmarshal at yahoo-inc.com (David Marshall) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 11:37:56 -0700 Subject: Boolean Chart Redesign In-Reply-To: <4C4229FE.3060706@bugzilla.org> Message-ID: A little bit more on this, with a new idea! Someone at Y! was asking about how to create a search that OR's two completely unrelated criteria. My advice was to just create two separate searches, because IMO Bugzilla isn't really intended to let you build up "My One True Bug Search" that has anything and everything in it. That got me thinking: what if Bugzilla allowed you to provide multiple saved searches to buglist.cgi with the result being either the union or intersection of the searches? If I could save that search, it becomes fairly easy to build a query that is as arbitrarily as complicated as I like. If Boolean charts become Javascript-y, perhaps membership in a saved search could be a Boolean chart condition? On 7/17/10 3:09 PM, "Max Kanat-Alexander" wrote: > > Hey folks. So, the Boolean Charts are great, they're powerful, and > they've been an important part of Bugzilla since 2000. However, the > Boolean Charts have some problems: > From mkanat at bugzilla.org Fri Jul 30 19:33:22 2010 From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 12:33:22 -0700 Subject: Boolean Chart Redesign In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C532902.10501@bugzilla.org> On 07/30/2010 11:37 AM, David Marshall wrote: > That got me thinking: what if Bugzilla allowed you to provide multiple saved > searches to buglist.cgi with the result being either the union or > intersection of the searches? That's certainly possible for the future as a different feature than the one we're talking about generally in this thread. -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too.