From shimono at mozilla.gr.jp  Tue Dec  2 17:49:01 2008
From: shimono at mozilla.gr.jp (Atsushi Shimono)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 02:49:01 +0900
Subject: NASA Uses Bugzilla for Space Shuttle
In-Reply-To: <91c108d8-3256-4981-89a7-ed5560c5a3cb@g38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.582.1226782594.4406.dev-apps-bugzilla@lists.mozilla.org>
	<91c108d8-3256-4981-89a7-ed5560c5a3cb@g38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e7835ac80812020949i65d6edfcsa3217b60e3c0107f@mail.gmail.com>

  hi,

On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 22:05,  <vitaly.fedrushkov at gmail.com> wrote:
>> two customized Bugzillas
>> that are in use at NASA, one for the space shuttle (tracking problems
>> with every part of it) and another for the International Space Station:
>
> As manned programs are partnered with Roscosmos, maybe Russian
> interface will help also?

  With attaching a release news of Bugzilla 3.2 (and Japanese templates),
I've send an e-mail to ISAS/JAXA people.
# attaching mkanat's survay on gov users :)

  mm..
  Isn't it nicer to contact via mkanat about this??, whether they (or their
cooperating agencies) needs it or not.

  regards,
-- 
Atsushi Shimono - shimono at mozilla.gr.jp
  http://www.mozilla.gr.jp/~shimono/blog/
_______________________________________________
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From mkanat at bugzilla.org  Wed Dec  3 01:21:09 2008
From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 17:21:09 -0800
Subject: NASA Uses Bugzilla for Space Shuttle
In-Reply-To: <e7835ac80812020949i65d6edfcsa3217b60e3c0107f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.582.1226782594.4406.dev-apps-bugzilla@lists.mozilla.org>
	<91c108d8-3256-4981-89a7-ed5560c5a3cb@g38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<e7835ac80812020949i65d6edfcsa3217b60e3c0107f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20081202172109.016a3640@bugzilla.org>

On Wed, 3 Dec 2008 02:49:01 +0900 "Atsushi Shimono"
<shimono at mozilla.gr.jp> wrote:
>   Isn't it nicer to contact via mkanat about this??, whether they (or
> their cooperating agencies) needs it or not.

	If you're going to publish anything in the press that has
anything to do with NASA and Bugzilla, it should go through NASA
first, and the easiest way to do that is through me. Otherwise, I don't
have anything to say about it.

	However, I'm working on a PR plan for Bugzilla right now, so
anybody who'd like to coordinate Bugzilla PR with me is welcome to.

	-Max
-- 
http://www.everythingsolved.com/
Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too.


From shara54 at gmail.com  Fri Dec  5 12:35:29 2008
From: shara54 at gmail.com (shara54 at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 04:35:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Bugzilla WebServices from Java client, getting Login required 
	after successful login...
References: <90ee0bb0-7359-4cf6-a133-2f46d7fcae6e@w1g2000prk.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.991.1227121476.4406.dev-apps-bugzilla@lists.mozilla.org> 
	<8478ba7f-96b0-480f-9c60-33c30c48eea7@k19g2000yqg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <24cd5f99-9281-4b86-95a7-784574cc5a60@k41g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

Hello!!

  I've a problem. I would like to login to the bugzilla via the
webservices like sm4rtus, but the following error it's thrown:

[Fatal Error] loose.dtd:31:3: The declaration for the entity
"HTML.Version" must end with '>'.
org.apache.xmlrpc.client.XmlRpcClientException: Failed to parse
servers response: The declaration for the entity "HTML.Version" must
end with '>'.
	at org.apache.xmlrpc.client.XmlRpcStreamTransport.readResponse
(XmlRpcStreamTransport.java:177)
	at org.apache.xmlrpc.client.XmlRpcStreamTransport.sendRequest
(XmlRpcStreamTransport.java:145)
	at org.apache.xmlrpc.client.XmlRpcHttpTransport.sendRequest
(XmlRpcHttpTransport.java:94)
	at org.apache.xmlrpc.client.XmlRpcClientWorker.execute
(XmlRpcClientWorker.java:53)
	at org.apache.xmlrpc.client.XmlRpcClient.execute(XmlRpcClient.java:
166)
	at org.apache.xmlrpc.client.XmlRpcClient.execute(XmlRpcClient.java:
136)
	at org.apache.xmlrpc.client.XmlRpcClient.execute(XmlRpcClient.java:
125)
	at PruebaTest.getBugzillaConnection(PruebaTest.java:64)
	at PruebaTest.testMain(PruebaTest.java:29)
	at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke0(Native Method)
	at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke
(NativeMethodAccessorImpl.java:39)
	at sun.reflect.DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.invoke
(DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.java:25)
	at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Method.java:597)
	at junit.framework.TestCase.runTest(TestCase.java:164)
	at junit.framework.TestCase.runBare(TestCase.java:130)
	at junit.framework.TestResult$1.protect(TestResult.java:106)
	at junit.framework.TestResult.runProtected(TestResult.java:124)
	at junit.framework.TestResult.run(TestResult.java:109)
	at junit.framework.TestCase.run(TestCase.java:120)
	at junit.framework.TestSuite.runTest(TestSuite.java:230)
	at junit.framework.TestSuite.run(TestSuite.java:225)
	at
org.eclipse.jdt.internal.junit.runner.junit3.JUnit3TestReference.run
(JUnit3TestReference.java:130)
	at org.eclipse.jdt.internal.junit.runner.TestExecution.run
(TestExecution.java:38)
	at org.eclipse.jdt.internal.junit.runner.RemoteTestRunner.runTests
(RemoteTestRunner.java:460)
	at org.eclipse.jdt.internal.junit.runner.RemoteTestRunner.runTests
(RemoteTestRunner.java:673)
	at org.eclipse.jdt.internal.junit.runner.RemoteTestRunner.run
(RemoteTestRunner.java:386)
	at org.eclipse.jdt.internal.junit.runner.RemoteTestRunner.main
(RemoteTestRunner.java:196)
Caused by: org.xml.sax.SAXParseException: The declaration for the
entity "HTML.Version" must end with '>'.
	at com.sun.org.apache.xerces.internal.parsers.AbstractSAXParser.parse
(AbstractSAXParser.java:1231)
	at com.sun.org.apache.xerces.internal.jaxp.SAXParserImpl
$JAXPSAXParser.parse(SAXParserImpl.java:522)
	at org.apache.xmlrpc.client.XmlRpcStreamTransport.readResponse
(XmlRpcStreamTransport.java:175)
	... 26 more

Does anybody know the reason of that and how can I soluzionate it??

Thanks
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From mkanat at bugzilla.org  Sat Dec  6 00:30:13 2008
From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 16:30:13 -0800
Subject: Bugzilla WebServices from Java client, getting Login required 
 after successful login...
In-Reply-To: <24cd5f99-9281-4b86-95a7-784574cc5a60@k41g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <90ee0bb0-7359-4cf6-a133-2f46d7fcae6e@w1g2000prk.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.991.1227121476.4406.dev-apps-bugzilla@lists.mozilla.org>
	<8478ba7f-96b0-480f-9c60-33c30c48eea7@k19g2000yqg.googlegroups.com>
	<24cd5f99-9281-4b86-95a7-784574cc5a60@k41g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20081205163013.767f61e0@bugzilla.org>

On Fri, 5 Dec 2008 04:35:29 -0800 (PST) shara54 at gmail.com wrote:
>   I've a problem. I would like to login to the bugzilla via the
> webservices like sm4rtus, but the following error it's thrown:
> [snip]

	Since this doesn't have to do with upstream development, you
should ask on the support list, described here:

	http://www.bugzilla.org/support/

	-Max
-- 
http://www.everythingsolved.com/
Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too.


From after.fallout at gmail.com  Wed Dec 10 16:33:37 2008
From: after.fallout at gmail.com (Bill Barry)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 09:33:37 -0700
Subject: Bugzilla repo mirrors?
Message-ID: <493FEF61.6080005@gmail.com>

Does anybody happen to have an hg mirror (git or bzr would be fine too) 
of the bugzilla cvs repository that I could clone (and possibly hope to 
pull from every once in a while)?

I was tasked with trying to set up testopia on my local copy of bugzilla 
and I am having some difficulties due to local modifications I have 
made. If I were able to deal with these modifications as a locally 
managed fork of bugzilla I think it would be easier to merge them and 
keep bugzilla (and testopia) up to date. I feel hopelessly lost with CVS.


From justdave at bugzilla.org  Wed Dec 10 22:32:50 2008
From: justdave at bugzilla.org (David Miller)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 17:32:50 -0500
Subject: Bugzilla repo mirrors?
In-Reply-To: <493FEF61.6080005@gmail.com>
References: <493FEF61.6080005@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49404392.1040400@bugzilla.org>

Bill Barry wrote on 12/10/08 11:33 AM:
> Does anybody happen to have an hg mirror (git or bzr would be fine too)
> of the bugzilla cvs repository that I could clone (and possibly hope to
> pull from every once in a while)?

bzr://bzr.everythingsolved.com/bugzilla/trunk
bzr://bzr.everythingsolved.com/bugzilla/3.2
bzr://bzr.everythingsolved.com/bugzilla/3.0

Updated hourly from CVS.

Substitute http: for bzr: to get changelogs and such.

-- 
Dave Miller                                   http://www.justdave.net/
System Administrator, Mozilla Corporation      http://www.mozilla.com/
Project Leader, Bugzilla Bug Tracking System  http://www.bugzilla.org/


From vitaly.fedrushkov at gmail.com  Tue Dec 16 06:05:47 2008
From: vitaly.fedrushkov at gmail.com (SnowyOwl)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 22:05:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Maketext support is out
Message-ID: <d792f455-8734-40cb-b850-5cc7cf8ba435@f33g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>

Good $daytime,

Once upon a time this was on Bugzilla roadmap.  Good news: first patch
is out:

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=469732

Bad news: maturity/robustness/performance are lacking...

I'd appreciate your feedback on how to do this better.  Thanks in
advance!

  Regards,
  Vitaly.
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From mkanat at bugzilla.org  Tue Dec 16 21:55:34 2008
From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 13:55:34 -0800
Subject: Part-Time Bugzilla Contractors Wanted--Work From Home
Message-ID: <20081216135534.69526aa9@bugzilla.org>

	Hey hey. So, my company, Everything Solved, Inc., does
professional computer program development for large and small companies
around the world. We have lots of clients, we just need more engineers!

	Most of our work is in Perl, and we do a lot of Bugzilla
customizations, so we're particularly interested in hiring people with
experience working on Bugzilla.

	If you work for Everything Solved, you would be a contractor.
You can work from home, at whatever time you want, as long as your code
is delivered on time. The work isn't guaranteed to be any particular
number of hours per week, but it's unlikely to be more than 20 hours
in the near future.

	As we expand more, if your code is of good quality, we will
have more and more work for you.

	All your work will be reviewed by me or another professional
code reviewer before being submitted to any client, so this is also
a great chance to brush up on your Perl or general coding skills.

	To be considered as a possible contractor, submit an example
of code that you have developed and consider well-written to:

	contractor-job at everythingsolved.com

	You may also want to include a resume, and a cover letter
describing your programming experience.

	-Max
-- 
http://www.everythingsolved.com/
Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too.


From gerv at mozilla.org  Wed Dec 17 18:11:36 2008
From: gerv at mozilla.org (Gervase Markham)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 18:11:36 +0000
Subject: Inter-bug-tracking-system comms standards
Message-ID: <Xs6dnTyA3YZz3dTUnZ2dnUVZ_jOdnZ2d@mozilla.org>

http://dag.wieers.com/blog/when-bugtracking-systems-are-fences-not-bridges

More talk of inter-bug-tracking-system comms standards. We should
probably be in this discussion if we aren't already.

Gerv


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https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-bugzilla


From YLiu at bgcpartners.com  Wed Dec 17 19:26:03 2008
From: YLiu at bgcpartners.com (Liu, Ye)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:26:03 -0500
Subject: Add "New" Status option in quick search
Message-ID: <0E31D03F3A4D9E4ABECCDD41315A4E2E01874D@TBEXCHMBXPDVS01.na.ad.espeed.com>

Dear Bugzilla Developers,

 

I wanted to add "New" Status option in quick search to search bugs with
status 'New' only. I got the display part done but my query returns
empty result. Please give me some pointers on how to display the sql
query bugzilla sends to MySQL. So that I can compare my query with the
query bugzilla sends to MySql when I choose "Open".

 

Thanks,

 

YE LIU


http://www.bgcpartners.com
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From mkanat at bugzilla.org  Wed Dec 17 19:36:01 2008
From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 11:36:01 -0800
Subject: Add "New" Status option in quick search
In-Reply-To: <0E31D03F3A4D9E4ABECCDD41315A4E2E01874D@TBEXCHMBXPDVS01.na.ad.espeed.com>
References: <0E31D03F3A4D9E4ABECCDD41315A4E2E01874D@TBEXCHMBXPDVS01.na.ad.espeed.com>
Message-ID: <20081217113601.50cf77ef@bugzilla.org>

On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:26:03 -0500 "Liu, Ye" <YLiu at bgcpartners.com>
wrote:
> I wanted to add "New" Status option in quick search to search bugs
> with status 'New' only.

	This is about a customization to your local system, so the
correct place to ask would be the support-bugzilla mailing list:

	http://www.bugzilla.org/support/

	-Max
-- 
http://www.everythingsolved.com/
Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too.


From mkanat at bugzilla.org  Fri Dec 19 13:46:31 2008
From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 05:46:31 -0800
Subject: The Future of Performance: Scaling
Message-ID: <20081219054631.3bf208ca@bugzilla.org>

	So, I was reading this:

	http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/001198.html

	And it was a good reminder of something that I've known
for a long time, but sometimes had forgotten--the future of performance
is, by and large, *scaling*, not optimizing. That is, tweaking our code
is not the important thing--what's important is that people should be
able to throw *more hardware* at Bugzilla to make it faster, if they
need to.

	We have very few real optimization issues that need to be
handled, and that is it, really:

	* Sending email needs to be faster:
	  https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=284184

	* Any page with lots of products/components/versions is slow
	  because of our JS:
	  https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=65052

	* Bugzilla can be generally slow if you have lots of products
	  or groups. (This one is lower-priority than the two above,
	  though, because you really have to have a LOT of products to
	  start noticing this.)

	Other than that, if we want to focus on performance, we should
be focusing on things like "Where can we use the shadowdb more?"
In fact, scaling the database is probably the most important performance
issue for us to tackle after the three above.

	All other performance issues, I pretty much don't care about,
personally. I'd rather see some simple code than some minor tweaks
to make things fast. It's nice to optimize some SQL here and there, but
if we could just make the database layer *scale*, it wouldn't even
matter that much how many SQL calls we were making.

	Now, honestly, scaling Bugzilla isn't *that* important yet--we
have very few enterprise-level users who really need it to scale
massively. But as we move more and more into that space, that's the
area of performance that will really start to matter. So the *future*
of performance in Bugzilla will be scaling, and *that's* the area we
should start to focus on, performance-wise.

	-Max
-- 
http://www.everythingsolved.com/
Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too.


From mkanat at bugzilla.org  Sat Dec 20 18:57:02 2008
From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 10:57:02 -0800
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
Message-ID: <20081220105702.7209696a@bugzilla.org>

	So, I've filed a bug for moving away from CVS, and probably to
bzr:

	https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=470570

	The bug itself contains the reasoning for why we'd pick bzr,
and you should read the whole Description of that bug before making any
comments here.

	However, this is the place to talk about the proposal, since
I'm sure that somebody somewhere will have opinions about it, and
I wanted to direct them here instead of in the bug, where we
should keep things to discussing the implementation of whatever we
do. :-)

	"CVS is great and we shouldn't move away from it," is an
argument that we are probably all guaranteed to ignore. :-)

	However, I'm open to arguments that we should move to some
*other* VCS, or talking about how the move to bzr should go, or
whatever. Honestly, I really like bzr, personally, and a lot of the
Bugzilla developers have experience with it, so convincing us to go
elsewhere could be difficult, but I'm not totally close-minded on the
issue personally, and I'm sure that the rest of the team isn't either.

	Anyhow, anybody who wants to chime in (even to say "Yeah, bzr
sounds great, +1!") is welcome to do so, here. :-)

	-Max
-- 
http://www.everythingsolved.com/
Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too.


From dottedmag at dottedmag.net  Sat Dec 20 19:03:21 2008
From: dottedmag at dottedmag.net (Mikhail Gusarov)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 01:03:21 +0600
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
In-Reply-To: <20081220105702.7209696a@bugzilla.org> (Max Kanat-Alexander's
	message of "Sat, 20 Dec 2008 10:57:02 -0800")
References: <20081220105702.7209696a@bugzilla.org>
Message-ID: <87k59uacue.fsf@frontier.dottedmag.net>

Twas brillig at 10:57:02 20.12.2008 UTC-08 when mkanat at bugzilla.org did gyre and gimble:

 MK> However, I'm open to arguments that we should move to some *other*
 MK> VCS, or talking about how the move to bzr should go, or whatever.

In my opinion bzr is ridiculously slow. But as long as it is easy to
have a hg or git mirror, it really does not matter at all.

-- 


From mkanat at bugzilla.org  Sat Dec 20 19:05:00 2008
From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 11:05:00 -0800
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
In-Reply-To: <87k59uacue.fsf@frontier.dottedmag.net>
References: <20081220105702.7209696a@bugzilla.org>
	<87k59uacue.fsf@frontier.dottedmag.net>
Message-ID: <20081220110500.7c331f6f@bugzilla.org>

On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 01:03:21 +0600 Mikhail Gusarov
<dottedmag at dottedmag.net> wrote:
> In my opinion bzr is ridiculously slow.

	Have you used it lately? It's been perfectly fine for me, for
quite some time now--since 1.0, really, which was 10 major releases ago.
Try some of the latest releases.

	-Max
-- 
http://www.everythingsolved.com/
Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too.


From jochen.wiedmann at gmail.com  Sat Dec 20 19:08:44 2008
From: jochen.wiedmann at gmail.com (Jochen Wiedmann)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 20:08:44 +0100
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
In-Reply-To: <20081220105702.7209696a@bugzilla.org>
References: <20081220105702.7209696a@bugzilla.org>
Message-ID: <e75283b10812201108l2160c2d1mf0a3d1faf1cbadf4@mail.gmail.com>

I must admit that I have experiences with neither. From my experiences
with switching from CVS to SVN, I'd like to bring up the question of
plugins for the major IDE's. IMO, SVN had a real lot of advantages
over CVS, but I had lost all the productivity advantages as long as I
had to switch environment for VCS actions.

Jochen


From mkanat at bugzilla.org  Sat Dec 20 19:17:25 2008
From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 11:17:25 -0800
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
In-Reply-To: <e75283b10812201108l2160c2d1mf0a3d1faf1cbadf4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20081220105702.7209696a@bugzilla.org>
	<e75283b10812201108l2160c2d1mf0a3d1faf1cbadf4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20081220111725.164ec7ed@bugzilla.org>

On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 20:08:44 +0100 "Jochen Wiedmann"
<jochen.wiedmann at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'd like to bring up the question of plugins for the major IDE's.

	Oh, that's a good question. I suspect that a lot of us don't
use any of the major IDE's, though. They tend not to have very good
support for Perl or dynamic languages in general. When I do use an IDE,
I use Komodo (which is what I suspect many dynamic-language
programmers use when they use an IDE), and Komodo 5 does have Bazaar
support.

	-Max
-- 
http://www.everythingsolved.com/
Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too.


From after.fallout at gmail.com  Sat Dec 20 20:09:56 2008
From: after.fallout at gmail.com (Bill Barry)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 13:09:56 -0700
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
In-Reply-To: <20081220105702.7209696a@bugzilla.org>
References: <20081220105702.7209696a@bugzilla.org>
Message-ID: <494D5114.2020109@gmail.com>

I don't think the DVCS choice matters much, simply having local history 
and being able to maintain forks (and patches like testopia or the bmo 
patch) is too important to ignore.

Max Kanat-Alexander wrote:
> 	So, I've filed a bug for moving away from CVS, and probably to
> bzr:
>
> 	https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=470570



From dottedmag at dottedmag.net  Sat Dec 20 20:54:23 2008
From: dottedmag at dottedmag.net (Mikhail Gusarov)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 02:54:23 +0600
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
References: <20081220105702.7209696a@bugzilla.org>
	<87k59uacue.fsf@frontier.dottedmag.net>
	<20081220110500.7c331f6f@bugzilla.org>
Message-ID: <87tz8y7ekg.fsf@frontier.dottedmag.net>


Twas brillig at 11:05:00 20.12.2008 UTC-08 when mkanat at bugzilla.org did gyre and gimble:

 MK> Have you used it lately?

I do it every year after I hear "have you tried it lately?" again :)

 MK> It's been perfectly fine for me, for quite some time now--since
 MK> 1.0, really, which was 10 major releases ago.  Try some of the
 MK> latest releases.

1.10 is better than 1.5 I tested several days ago. Still 10min/2min for
remote/local cloning of whole Python repo, but it is tolerable (it was
25min/6min for 1.5). Painful (hg: 3min/13sec, git: 4.5min/10sec), but
tolerable.

Test code:
http://www.bitbucket.org/ArneBab/hg-vs-bzr-speedtest-unscientific/

-- 


From mkanat at bugzilla.org  Sat Dec 20 21:11:10 2008
From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 13:11:10 -0800
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
In-Reply-To: <87tz8y7ekg.fsf@frontier.dottedmag.net>
References: <20081220105702.7209696a@bugzilla.org>
	<87k59uacue.fsf@frontier.dottedmag.net>
	<20081220110500.7c331f6f@bugzilla.org>
	<87tz8y7ekg.fsf@frontier.dottedmag.net>
Message-ID: <20081220131110.098c0b61@bugzilla.org>

On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 02:54:23 +0600 Mikhail Gusarov
<dottedmag at dottedmag.net> wrote:
> 1.10 is better than 1.5 I tested several days ago. Still 10min/2min
> for remote/local cloning of whole Python repo, but it is tolerable
> (it was 25min/6min for 1.5). Painful (hg: 3min/13sec, git:
> 4.5min/10sec), but tolerable.

	Yeah. Also, the python repo has 40,000 revisions, and we have
only about 7000. You can try the current bzr mirror of Bugzilla with:

	bzr://bzr.everythingsolved.com/bugzilla/trunk

	-Max
-- 
http://www.everythingsolved.com/
Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too.


From cedric.corazza at gmail.com  Sat Dec 20 22:59:43 2008
From: cedric.corazza at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?C=E9dric_Corazza?=)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 23:59:43 +0100
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.764.1229799458.4225.dev-apps-bugzilla@lists.mozilla.org>
References: <mailman.764.1229799458.4225.dev-apps-bugzilla@lists.mozilla.org>
Message-ID: <EKKdnQgnOv7r6tDUnZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d@mozilla.org>

A localization point of view.

I would only have a regret as a localizer:
We currently have to deal with CVS (for 1.9.0 Gecko branch), HG (for 
1.9.1 gecko branch), SVN for Mozilla Web files, and that would mean we 
will have to deal now with a fourth VCS :-( .
Apart from the fact the dev team already dealt with bzr repos, are there 
any other reasons to move to Bazaar?
Is Mercurial not an option, and if so why?
The multiplicity of tools is an obstacle for new locales to come.
Though this move is just about the Bugzilla Project, Bugzilla is part of 
the Mozilla products.
I just wanted to state about this part of the move.

C?dric
_______________________________________________
dev-apps-bugzilla mailing list
dev-apps-bugzilla at lists.mozilla.org
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-bugzilla


From fedrushkov at users.sourceforge.net  Sat Dec 20 22:53:03 2008
From: fedrushkov at users.sourceforge.net (Vitaly Fedrushkov)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 03:53:03 +0500
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.764.1229799458.4225.dev-apps-bugzilla@lists.mozilla.org>
References: <mailman.764.1229799458.4225.dev-apps-bugzilla@lists.mozilla.org>
Message-ID: <494D774F.2070606@users.sourceforge.net>

FAQ:

http://www.versioncontrolblog.com/comparison/Bazaar/CVS/Git/Mercurial/Subversion/index.html

For Windows users: Tortoisebzr is included with distribution.  But 1.10 
binary not released yet.

How to emulate CVS sticky tags with Bazaar?  Already lacking them in 
Subversion.

   Regards,
   Vitaly.
_______________________________________________
dev-apps-bugzilla mailing list
dev-apps-bugzilla at lists.mozilla.org
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-bugzilla


From dottedmag at dottedmag.net  Sat Dec 20 22:58:13 2008
From: dottedmag at dottedmag.net (Mikhail Gusarov)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 04:58:13 +0600
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
In-Reply-To: <EKKdnQgnOv7r6tDUnZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d@mozilla.org> (=?utf-8?Q?=22?=
	=?utf-8?Q?C=C3=A9dric?=
	Corazza"'s message of "Sat, 20 Dec 2008 23:59:43 +0100")
References: <mailman.764.1229799458.4225.dev-apps-bugzilla@lists.mozilla.org>
	<EKKdnQgnOv7r6tDUnZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d@mozilla.org>
Message-ID: <87fxki78u2.fsf@frontier.dottedmag.net>


Twas brillig at 23:59:43 20.12.2008 UTC+01 when cedric.corazza at gmail.com did gyre and gimble:

 CC> A localization point of view.

Something like http://transifex.org/ should help. However I'm not sure
is Transifex gettext-only, or can be set up to fetch different types of
to-be-translated files.

-- 
_______________________________________________
dev-apps-bugzilla mailing list
dev-apps-bugzilla at lists.mozilla.org
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-bugzilla


From gerv at mozilla.org  Sat Dec 20 23:22:52 2008
From: gerv at mozilla.org (Gervase Markham)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 23:22:52 +0000
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
In-Reply-To: <EKKdnQgnOv7r6tDUnZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d@mozilla.org>
References: <mailman.764.1229799458.4225.dev-apps-bugzilla@lists.mozilla.org>
	<EKKdnQgnOv7r6tDUnZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d@mozilla.org>
Message-ID: <kI-dnVPN68bQ49DUnZ2dnUVZ_vWdnZ2d@mozilla.org>

C?dric Corazza wrote:
> 1.9.1 gecko branch), SVN for Mozilla Web files, and that would mean we
> will have to deal now with a fourth VCS :-( .

I think this point is not to be underestimated. Currently, the Mozilla
project uses (IMO) too many different VCSes. How it got that way is
history, and we are currently in the middle of a transition, but it
would be good to work towards having fewer. CVS will die slowly, and
perhaps one day the SVN repo will move to Hg too. Adding a fourth VCS to
the mix certainly doesn't help this goal.

Justdave: does the IT team have any views on VCS consolidation, or is
the official line that "we'll support whatever people want to use"?

Gerv
_______________________________________________
dev-apps-bugzilla mailing list
dev-apps-bugzilla at lists.mozilla.org
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-bugzilla

From mkanat at bugzilla.org  Sat Dec 20 23:33:55 2008
From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 15:33:55 -0800
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
In-Reply-To: <494D774F.2070606@users.sourceforge.net>
References: <mailman.764.1229799458.4225.dev-apps-bugzilla@lists.mozilla.org>
	<494D774F.2070606@users.sourceforge.net>
Message-ID: <20081220153355.2e549f97@bugzilla.org>

On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 03:53:03 +0500 Vitaly Fedrushkov
<fedrushkov at users.sourceforge.net> wrote:
> How to emulate CVS sticky tags with Bazaar?

	bzr tag -r1234 some_tag

	bzr co -rtag:some_tag some/branch

	Works very nicely. :-)

	-Max
-- 
http://www.everythingsolved.com/
Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too.


From mkanat at bugzilla.org  Sat Dec 20 23:50:06 2008
From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 15:50:06 -0800
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
In-Reply-To: <EKKdnQgnOv7r6tDUnZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d@mozilla.org>
References: <mailman.764.1229799458.4225.dev-apps-bugzilla@lists.mozilla.org>
	<EKKdnQgnOv7r6tDUnZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d@mozilla.org>
Message-ID: <20081220155006.5c737b10@bugzilla.org>

On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 23:59:43 +0100 C?dric Corazza
<cedric.corazza at gmail.com> wrote:
> Apart from the fact the dev team already dealt with bzr repos, are
> there any other reasons to move to Bazaar?

	http://bazaar-vcs.org/BzrVsHg is a fairly good explanation of
some of the advantages of Bzr over Hg.

> Is Mercurial not an option, and if so why?

	It's an option, it's just not the preferred option at the
moment, though we could possibly be convinced otherwise. I think bzr
has better architecture, is simpler, and has better prospects for
future improvement than Mercurial does (particularly given how quickly
and often bzr releases).

> The multiplicity of tools is an obstacle for new locales to come.
> Though this move is just about the Bugzilla Project, Bugzilla is part
> of the Mozilla products.
> I just wanted to state about this part of the move.

	Yeah, I understand, and I appreciate you bringing up the point.
I think that lots of people are experiencing this nowadays--for so
long, CVS was the de-facto standard, and then after that, there was only
SVN to replace it. But then suddenly there were several DVCSes, all at
once, to replace SVN & CVS, and none of them have really come out as a
clear standard. My understanding is that even with hg.mozilla.org, it's
not guaranteed that Mozilla is going to stay with it forever, only for
this Core development cycle.

	-Max
-- 
http://www.everythingsolved.com/
Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too.


From lpsolit at gmail.com  Sun Dec 21 12:59:06 2008
From: lpsolit at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fr=E9d=E9ric_Buclin?=)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 13:59:06 +0100
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
In-Reply-To: <20081220105702.7209696a@bugzilla.org>
References: <20081220105702.7209696a@bugzilla.org>
Message-ID: <494E3D9A.5010309@gmail.com>

Le 20. 12. 08 19:57, Max Kanat-Alexander a ?crit :
> 	"CVS is great and we shouldn't move away from it," is an
> argument that we are probably all guaranteed to ignore. :-)

CVS is great....


> whatever. Honestly, I really like bzr, personally, and a lot of the
> Bugzilla developers have experience with it


Who are they, besides you and justdave?


From tm at sci.fi  Sun Dec 21 14:22:28 2008
From: tm at sci.fi (Teemu Mannermaa)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 16:22:28 +0200
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
In-Reply-To: <20081220105702.7209696a@bugzilla.org>
References: <20081220105702.7209696a@bugzilla.org>
Message-ID: <494E5124.4060501@sci.fi>

On 20.12.2008 20:57, Max Kanat-Alexander wrote:
> 	However, this is the place to talk about the proposal, since

There's few utilities I'd like to still work without much complication 
so I can still review and write patches for the Bugzilla Project. As 
long these are addressed one way or another, I can be convinced to move 
to bzr or some other CVS.

These are:
  1) "cvs update" to bring my landfill test instances up to date (and 
show all conflicted and modified files),
  2) "cvs update -C" to blow away all modifications on an instance,
  3) "cvs diff" to make reviewable patches and see local changes,
  4) "bzpatch" to install patches from BMO,
  5) Landfill Patch Database Administration website and scripts still 
functional so new test instances can be easily created for new branches and
  6) Bonsai and MXR utilities to view sources and their changes.
[7) Some other utility as I have a feeling that I'm forgetting something 
important.]

As I currenly understand, bzr supports same command sets than cvs so 
point 1 through 3 should work. And I'm sure you or someone else can fix 
points 4 through 5 on landfill. That leaves point 6 that might or might 
not be fixed with loggerhead (but this is not the most important point 
for me anyway). Does MXR already support bzr?

> 	"CVS is great and we shouldn't move away from it," is an
> argument that we are probably all guaranteed to ignore. :-)

CVS is working just fine for me.

> 	However, I'm open to arguments that we should move to some
> *other* VCS, or talking about how the move to bzr should go, or

I do hope bzr's loggerhead that is supposed to replace Bonsai is much 
more functional than the hg thing Mozilla uses is. It's so cumbersome to 
use it that I simply can't get anything done with it. :(

So if there's no better implemention of Bonsai for Mercurial then I'd 
vote against choosing it.
-- 
"Anything is possible but probabilities vary."
"Whatever. Life goes on." -Dark Angel



From after.fallout at gmail.com  Sun Dec 21 15:07:33 2008
From: after.fallout at gmail.com (Bill Barry)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 08:07:33 -0700
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
In-Reply-To: <494E5124.4060501@sci.fi>
References: <20081220105702.7209696a@bugzilla.org> <494E5124.4060501@sci.fi>
Message-ID: <494E5BB5.7040605@gmail.com>

Teemu Mannermaa wrote:
> I do hope bzr's loggerhead that is supposed to replace Bonsai is much 
> more functional than the hg thing Mozilla uses is. It's so cumbersome 
> to use it that I simply can't get anything done with it. :(
>
> So if there's no better implemention of Bonsai for Mercurial then I'd 
> vote against choosing it.

Are you looking for the ability to search history easier? I'll agree 
that hgweb doesn't do that very well (that single textbox does work and 
I think it accepts python regexes to search through history). However, 
since history is local, hg comes with a command called "hg grep" which 
is rather useful in searching through history (tortoisehg provides a 
datamine feature to access this functionality through a gui). Also 
something to consider is the "hg bisect" command which allows you to 
find when a change appeared first through a interactive search.

What else does bonsai do that is missing in Mercurial?

I think bzr has pretty much the same functionality here anyways. Btw, if 
that isn't enough, you can always register a branch at bitbucket 
(www.bitbucket.org) for hg or launchpad for bzr (https://launchpad.net/)


From tm at sci.fi  Sun Dec 21 16:51:05 2008
From: tm at sci.fi (Teemu Mannermaa)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 18:51:05 +0200
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
In-Reply-To: <494E5BB5.7040605@gmail.com>
References: <20081220105702.7209696a@bugzilla.org> <494E5124.4060501@sci.fi> <494E5BB5.7040605@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <494E73F9.1000909@sci.fi>

On 21.12.2008 17:07, Bill Barry wrote:
> Teemu Mannermaa wrote:
>> I do hope bzr's loggerhead that is supposed to replace Bonsai is much
>> more functional than the hg thing Mozilla uses is. It's so cumbersome
> What else does bonsai do that is missing in Mercurial?

What I have been trying to get from hqweb is a list of all changes 
committed after a certain nightly or released version of FF/TB. It would 
ideally list a date, complete description, list of changed files and has 
a link to get a full diff (changeset?) of changes.

I can't see no way to have from and to date filters and while hqweb has 
three or four different list formats none of them give what I want in 
simple and clear way. Not to mention paging through a list is way too 
complicated.

For Bugzilla I use changelog and blame output of Bonsai to see history 
of one file. Not to mention http://www.bugzilla.org/status/changes.html 
is valuable information (this is also exactly what I miss for TB/FF).
-- 
"Anything is possible but probabilities vary."
"Whatever. Life goes on." -Dark Angel



From mkanat at bugzilla.org  Sun Dec 21 17:19:56 2008
From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 09:19:56 -0800
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
In-Reply-To: <494E3D9A.5010309@gmail.com>
References: <20081220105702.7209696a@bugzilla.org>
	<494E3D9A.5010309@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20081221091956.0610490b@bugzilla.org>

On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 13:59:06 +0100 Fr?d?ric Buclin <lpsolit at gmail.com>
wrote:
> Who are they, besides you and justdave?

	Well, you and bbaetz, and anybody else who's ever done work for
Everything Solved. :-)

	-Max
-- 
http://www.everythingsolved.com/
Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too.


From mkanat at bugzilla.org  Sun Dec 21 17:23:15 2008
From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 09:23:15 -0800
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
In-Reply-To: <494E5124.4060501@sci.fi>
References: <20081220105702.7209696a@bugzilla.org>
	<494E5124.4060501@sci.fi>
Message-ID: <20081221092315.2ecd183e@bugzilla.org>

On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 16:22:28 +0200 Teemu Mannermaa <tm at sci.fi> wrote:
>   1) "cvs update" to bring my landfill test instances up to date (and 
> show all conflicted and modified files),

	bzr update

>   2) "cvs update -C" to blow away all modifications on an instance,

	bzr update
	bzr revert

>   3) "cvs diff" to make reviewable patches and see local changes,

	bzr diff

>   4) "bzpatch" to install patches from BMO,

	Easy enough to adapt, I'm rather fond of it too. Also, this
might work though I haven't tried:

	bzr patch http://some.url/

>   5) Landfill Patch Database Administration website and scripts still 
> functional so new test instances can be easily created for new
> branches

	Ah, I'll add that to the bug, thanks. :-)

> 6) Bonsai

	Loggerhead: http://bzr.bugzilla.org/

	It also has some undocumented features, so if it's missing
something that you want, it's easy enough to ask the developers about
it (they hang out in #bzr on FreeNode).

> and MXR utilities to view sources and their changes. 

	MXR isn't tied to any particular VCS, as far as I know.

	-Max
-- 
http://www.everythingsolved.com/
Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too.


From lpsolit at gmail.com  Sun Dec 21 17:27:11 2008
From: lpsolit at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?RnLDqWTDqXJpYyBCdWNsaW4=?=)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 18:27:11 +0100
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
In-Reply-To: <20081221091956.0610490b@bugzilla.org>
References: <20081220105702.7209696a@bugzilla.org>	<494E3D9A.5010309@gmail.com> <20081221091956.0610490b@bugzilla.org>
Message-ID: <494E7C6F.5090408@gmail.com>

Le 21. 12. 08 18:19, Max Kanat-Alexander a ?crit :
> 	Well, you and bbaetz, and anybody else who's ever done work for
> Everything Solved. :-)

Wow, I don't consider myself as having experience with bzr. I spent my 
time in #async when I had problems (and I had many :)).


From mkanat at bugzilla.org  Sun Dec 21 18:40:20 2008
From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 10:40:20 -0800
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
In-Reply-To: <494E7C6F.5090408@gmail.com>
References: <20081220105702.7209696a@bugzilla.org>
	<494E3D9A.5010309@gmail.com>
	<20081221091956.0610490b@bugzilla.org>
	<494E7C6F.5090408@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20081221104020.10108429@bugzilla.org>

On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 18:27:11 +0100 Fr?d?ric Buclin <lpsolit at gmail.com>
wrote:
> Wow, I don't consider myself as having experience with bzr.

	Well, more than you have with Mercurial or Git, right? :-)

> I spent my time in #async when I had problems (and I had many :)).

	Well, nowadays the workflow can be identical to CVS for most
people:

	bzr checkout
	bzr update
	bzr diff
	bzr commit

	So I think things should be fairly easy for people.

	I suspect you'd also appreciate the "bzr shelve" and "bzr
unshelve" commands (they're now integrated as of bzr 1.10) which allow
you to work on multiple patches using the same directory.


	-Max
-- 
http://www.everythingsolved.com/
Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too.


From bugzilla at colinogilvie.co.uk  Sun Dec 21 20:52:08 2008
From: bugzilla at colinogilvie.co.uk (Colin Ogilvie)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 20:52:08 +0000
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
In-Reply-To: <20081221104020.10108429@bugzilla.org>
References: <20081220105702.7209696a@bugzilla.org> <494E3D9A.5010309@gmail.com> <20081221091956.0610490b@bugzilla.org> <494E7C6F.5090408@gmail.com> <20081221104020.10108429@bugzilla.org>
Message-ID: <abc95e32ec0589515a8953340a2d89e7@localhost>

On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 10:40:20 -0800, Max Kanat-Alexander
<mkanat at bugzilla.org> wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 18:27:11 +0100 Fr?d?ric Buclin <lpsolit at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Wow, I don't consider myself as having experience with bzr.
> 
> 	Well, more than you have with Mercurial or Git, right? :-)

I've used neither, in fact, I've only ever used CVS and SVN although I am
about to learn git for work, so if we could move to that it would help ;-) 

Serious comment - why move to BZR instead of Mercurial, which (I think is
what) the other Mozilla projects appear to be moving to?

Surely having BZR is just 'another new thing to support' from that point of
view?

I'm sure I read somewhere in the discussion about it being a VM on some
server - being supported by Max. Surely moving to the same as the other
projects means that you have dedicated support etc. for that from the
Mozilla IT team rather than having to rely on one person... single points
of failure are bad and all that.

I'm not against moving, I just think it would be better to move to
something that's being used by other parts of the mozilla projects etc.

Although I do think this discussion should have been had BEFORE the bug was
open and the bug only opened once the discussion was completed...

Cheers,
Colin

-- 
Colin Ogilvie
bugzilla at colinogilvie.co.uk



From mkanat at bugzilla.org  Sun Dec 21 21:05:20 2008
From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 13:05:20 -0800
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
In-Reply-To: <abc95e32ec0589515a8953340a2d89e7@localhost>
References: <20081220105702.7209696a@bugzilla.org>
	<494E3D9A.5010309@gmail.com>
	<20081221091956.0610490b@bugzilla.org>
	<494E7C6F.5090408@gmail.com>
	<20081221104020.10108429@bugzilla.org>
	<abc95e32ec0589515a8953340a2d89e7@localhost>
Message-ID: <20081221130520.01f6fc6b@bugzilla.org>

On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 20:52:08 +0000 Colin Ogilvie
<bugzilla at colinogilvie.co.uk> wrote:
> Serious comment - why move to BZR instead of Mercurial, which (I
> think is what) the other Mozilla projects appear to be moving to?

	The question's been asked a few times in this thread.
http://bazaar-vcs.org/BzrVsHg is a fairly good explanation of some of
the advantages of Bzr over Hg. There are also other advantages not
listed there.

> I'm sure I read somewhere in the discussion about it being a VM on
> some server - being supported by Max.

	Or possibly run by MoCo. I'd be OK with that. reed talked to me
about it today, it's a possibility.

	VCS systems don't really require that much administration,
though, particularly for a project of our size.

	-Max
-- 
http://www.everythingsolved.com/
Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too.


From bugzilla at colinogilvie.co.uk  Sun Dec 21 21:13:17 2008
From: bugzilla at colinogilvie.co.uk (Colin Ogilvie)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 21:13:17 +0000
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
In-Reply-To: <20081221130520.01f6fc6b@bugzilla.org>
References: <20081220105702.7209696a@bugzilla.org> <494E3D9A.5010309@gmail.com> <20081221091956.0610490b@bugzilla.org> <494E7C6F.5090408@gmail.com> <20081221104020.10108429@bugzilla.org> <abc95e32ec0589515a8953340a2d89e7@localhost> <20081221130520.01f6fc6b@bugzilla.org>
Message-ID: <494EB16D.5010304@colinogilvie.co.uk>

On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 13:05:20 -0800, Max Kanat-Alexander
<mkanat at bugzilla.org> wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 20:52:08 +0000 Colin Ogilvie
> <bugzilla at colinogilvie.co.uk> wrote:
>> Serious comment - why move to BZR instead of Mercurial, which (I
>> think is what) the other Mozilla projects appear to be moving to?
>
> 	The question's been asked a few times in this thread.
> http://bazaar-vcs.org/BzrVsHg is a fairly good explanation of some of
> the advantages of Bzr over Hg. There are also other advantages not
> listed there.

How many of those are actually relevant to the Bugzilla project though?

Also, what other VCSs have been discussed other than Bzr and why were 
they discounted?

> 	Or possibly run by MoCo. I'd be OK with that. reed talked to me
> about it today, it's a possibility.
>
> 	VCS systems don't really require that much administration,
> though, particularly for a project of our size.

Nope, but if they go down or theres some sort of corruption etc. it's 
best not to have a SPOF... the more extreme example is you get hit by a 
bus or something, not that we'd want that to happen!

Colin


From dottedmag at dottedmag.net  Sun Dec 21 21:15:54 2008
From: dottedmag at dottedmag.net (Mikhail Gusarov)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 03:15:54 +0600
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
In-Reply-To: <494EB16D.5010304@colinogilvie.co.uk> (Colin Ogilvie's message of
	"Sun, 21 Dec 2008 21:13:17 +0000")
References: <20081220105702.7209696a@bugzilla.org>
	<494E3D9A.5010309@gmail.com> <20081221091956.0610490b@bugzilla.org>
	<494E7C6F.5090408@gmail.com> <20081221104020.10108429@bugzilla.org>
	<abc95e32ec0589515a8953340a2d89e7@localhost>
	<20081221130520.01f6fc6b@bugzilla.org>
	<494EB16D.5010304@colinogilvie.co.uk>
Message-ID: <87abap5iwl.fsf@frontier.dottedmag.net>


Twas brillig at 21:13:17 21.12.2008 UTC+00 when bugzilla at colinogilvie.co.uk did gyre and gimble:

 CO> Also, what other VCSs have been discussed other than Bzr and why
 CO> were they discounted?

'cause Max loves bzr :)

 CO> Nope, but if they go down or theres some sort of corruption
 CO> etc. it's best not to have a SPOF... the more extreme example is
 CO> you get hit by a bus or something, not that we'd want that to
 CO> happen!

All DVCS have "built-in backup solution" called clone/branch/checkout :)

-- 


From bugzilla at colinogilvie.co.uk  Sun Dec 21 21:19:08 2008
From: bugzilla at colinogilvie.co.uk (Colin Ogilvie)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 21:19:08 +0000
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
In-Reply-To: <87abap5iwl.fsf@frontier.dottedmag.net>
References: <20081220105702.7209696a@bugzilla.org>	<494E3D9A.5010309@gmail.com> <20081221091956.0610490b@bugzilla.org>	<494E7C6F.5090408@gmail.com> <20081221104020.10108429@bugzilla.org>	<abc95e32ec0589515a8953340a2d89e7@localhost>	<20081221130520.01f6fc6b@bugzilla.org>	<494EB16D.5010304@colinogilvie.co.uk> <87abap5iwl.fsf@frontier.dottedmag.net>
Message-ID: <494EB2CC.8090005@colinogilvie.co.uk>

On 21/12/2008 21:15, Mikhail Gusarov wrote:
> All DVCS have "built-in backup solution" called clone/branch/checkout :)

So we have a sudden security release, and the 'mater' repo goes dead, 
and Max is nowhere to be seen - where do the people that use the VCS 
method of keeping up to date get their update from?

Colin


From mkanat at bugzilla.org  Sun Dec 21 21:27:56 2008
From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 13:27:56 -0800
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
In-Reply-To: <494EB16D.5010304@colinogilvie.co.uk>
References: <20081220105702.7209696a@bugzilla.org>
	<494E3D9A.5010309@gmail.com>
	<20081221091956.0610490b@bugzilla.org>
	<494E7C6F.5090408@gmail.com>
	<20081221104020.10108429@bugzilla.org>
	<abc95e32ec0589515a8953340a2d89e7@localhost>
	<20081221130520.01f6fc6b@bugzilla.org>
	<494EB16D.5010304@colinogilvie.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20081221132756.64671f57@bugzilla.org>

On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 21:13:17 +0000 Colin Ogilvie
<bugzilla at colinogilvie.co.uk> wrote:
> How many of those are actually relevant to the Bugzilla project
> though?

	Well, did you read them?

	The workflow aspect is pretty relevant--it's nice that you
don't have to reeducate people, they can still use the exact same
workflow they had in CVS.

	Loggerhead is nicer than Hgweb, in my experience.

	We do move and rename directories, and the ability to merge
the inventory correctly is a good thing, in that case, particularly for
bound branches.

	I personally think the plugin aspect is really useful, I use a
few plugins myself, and I really like the bzrtools plugins package in
particular.

> Also, what other VCSs have been discussed other than Bzr and why were 
> they discounted?

	We're basically discussing them now, this would be the
place. :-)

	Mozilla narrowed down the discussion to bzr and hg way back
when (and I participated in the discussion) when they were picking a
DVCS to move to, and Hg was only picked because it could scale to the
level that Mozilla needs. I'm pretty sure that otherwise we would have
gone with bzr.

> Nope, but if they go down or theres some sort of corruption etc. it's 
> best not to have a SPOF... the more extreme example is you get hit by
> a bus or something, not that we'd want that to happen!

	Hahahaha, yeah. :-) And believe me, I don't really *want* to be
administering a VCS, and particularly not forever. I'm doing my best to
get *away* from sysadmin tasks for the Bugzilla Project. But I really
think that bzr is the best choice (I mean, I'm willing to be convinced
otherwise, but that's what I think right now), and I'm willing to take
on a bit of sysadmin work if it means that we can move to it.

	-Max
-- 
http://www.everythingsolved.com/
Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too.


From mkanat at bugzilla.org  Sun Dec 21 22:34:20 2008
From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 14:34:20 -0800
Subject: A Test Bzr Site
Message-ID: <20081221143420.60e20cb7@bugzilla.org>

	Hey hey. So I've set up a read-only bzr mirror of our CVS,
here:

	http://bzr.bugzilla.org/

	That's running "Loggerhead", a bzr repository browser. We are
running a stable version of Loggerhead, not the trunk, so it might not
have every bell and whistle available in the dev versions.

	Currently it has all the Bugzilla branches imported into it,
and I've tagged every release in every branch. 

	You can check out a branch with a command like:

	bzr checkout bzr://bzr.bugzilla.org/bugzilla/trunk

	You can also use "http://" if you're behind a firewall that
doesn't allow "bzr://".

	There are some minor problems with the importer that does the
mirroring, but those problems wouldn't carry over into our actually
using bzr, if we decide to go with bzr. The known problems are that
non-ASCII characters in commit messages sometimes become garbled, and
there are a few commits/files in branches that shouldn't be there (this
is due to a limitation of "cvsps", which the importer uses.  I would
fix it manually after the move, if we switch over).

	If you have any questions about Loggerhead or bzr, a good place
to ask is the #bzr channel on irc.freenode.net.

	-Max
-- 
http://www.everythingsolved.com/
Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too.


From bbaetz at acm.org  Sun Dec 21 23:59:49 2008
From: bbaetz at acm.org (Bradley Baetz)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 07:59:49 +0800
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
In-Reply-To: <20081221091956.0610490b@bugzilla.org>
References: <20081220105702.7209696a@bugzilla.org> <494E3D9A.5010309@gmail.com>
	 <20081221091956.0610490b@bugzilla.org>
Message-ID: <99435f5b0812211559o3dae9457w60114e072650cc5b@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 1:19 AM, Max Kanat-Alexander
<mkanat at bugzilla.org> wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 13:59:06 +0100 Fr?d?ric Buclin <lpsolit at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Who are they, besides you and justdave?
>
>        Well, you and bbaetz, and anybody else who's ever done work for
> Everything Solved. :-)

I barely did anything with bzr, but I don't have any hg experience either, so...

I don't necessarily mind moving away from CVS, and its not like we
have complicated needs, but can tinderbox hook in with bzr? We do rely
on m.org infrastructure, and it just seems like Yet Another VCS may
not be the way to go.

Bradley


From mkanat at bugzilla.org  Mon Dec 22 00:23:44 2008
From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 16:23:44 -0800
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
In-Reply-To: <99435f5b0812211559o3dae9457w60114e072650cc5b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20081220105702.7209696a@bugzilla.org>
	<494E3D9A.5010309@gmail.com>
	<20081221091956.0610490b@bugzilla.org>
	<99435f5b0812211559o3dae9457w60114e072650cc5b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20081221162344.30ecded3@bugzilla.org>

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 07:59:49 +0800 "Bradley Baetz" <bbaetz at acm.org>
wrote:
> I don't necessarily mind moving away from CVS, and its not like we
> have complicated needs, but can tinderbox hook in with bzr?

	Yeah, it should be fine. And also we're going to maintain a
bzr->cvs mirror, so the tinderbox tools can keep using that.

	-Max
-- 
http://www.everythingsolved.com/
Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too.


From ghendricks at novell.com  Mon Dec 22 17:56:10 2008
From: ghendricks at novell.com (Gregary Hendricks)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 10:56:10 -0700
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
In-Reply-To: <20081220111725.164ec7ed@bugzilla.org>
References: <20081220105702.7209696a@bugzilla.org>
 <e75283b10812201108l2160c2d1mf0a3d1faf1cbadf4@mail.gmail.com>
 <20081220111725.164ec7ed@bugzilla.org>
Message-ID: <494F724A020000D20003ABC7@lucius.provo.novell.com>

>>> On 12/20/2008 at 12:17 PM, in message <20081220111725.164ec7ed at bugzilla.org>,
Max Kanat-Alexander <mkanat at bugzilla.org> wrote: 
> On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 20:08:44 +0100 "Jochen Wiedmann" 
> <jochen.wiedmann at gmail.com> wrote: 
> > I'd like to bring up the question of plugins for the major IDE's. 
>  
> 	Oh, that's a good question. I suspect that a lot of us don't 
> use any of the major IDE's, though. They tend not to have very good 
> support for Perl or dynamic languages in general. When I do use an IDE, 
> I use Komodo (which is what I suspect many dynamic-language 
> programmers use when they use an IDE), and Komodo 5 does have Bazaar 
> support. 

I use Eclipse with EPIC for all my Perl development. I like its support for SVN and CVS which make patching, diffing, and checkins extremely simple. I also love how Mylin connects SVN with Bugzilla. I am all for moving away from CVS, but I wonder what the arguments against SVN are. I noticed it wasn't even mentioned in the list of "modern" VCSs.

Can anyone point to a good bzr plugin for Eclipse?

=+= May the Source be with you =+=
Greg





From mkanat at bugzilla.org  Mon Dec 22 18:16:14 2008
From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 10:16:14 -0800
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
In-Reply-To: <494F724A020000D20003ABC7@lucius.provo.novell.com>
References: <20081220105702.7209696a@bugzilla.org>
	<e75283b10812201108l2160c2d1mf0a3d1faf1cbadf4@mail.gmail.com>
	<20081220111725.164ec7ed@bugzilla.org>
	<494F724A020000D20003ABC7@lucius.provo.novell.com>
Message-ID: <20081222101614.29ae33dc@bugzilla.org>

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 10:56:10 -0700 "Gregary Hendricks"
<ghendricks at novell.com> wrote:
> I wonder what the arguments against SVN are. 

	We want a DVCS. If you'd like to know the advantages of a DVCS
over a centralized VCS, there are lots of good resources on the
Internet, or you can ask me on IRC.

> Can anyone point to a good bzr plugin for Eclipse?

	http://www.google.com/search?q=bzr+eclipse

	-Max
-- 
http://www.everythingsolved.com/
Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too.


From kblock at coverity.com  Wed Dec 24 17:06:27 2008
From: kblock at coverity.com (Ken Block)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 09:06:27 -0800
Subject: Self Introduction: Ken Block
Message-ID: <FEFD432EA8DD2D45B110ACE93F8200FF01E8ED66@sf-ex-1.migcoverity.net>

Full Name: 
  Kenneth Robert Block 
 
Location:  
  Providence, Rhode Island, United States 
 
Profession: 
  Director of Engineering at Coverity, Inc 
 
What do you want to help out with? 
 
  My primary interest is the reporting and project management aspects of
Bugzilla. Bugzilla w/time tracking has all the information I need to
track projects, but the reports for getting at that information are not
what I need. As a proof of concept, I implemented a Perl script that can
take the data exported from BZ and creates a Microsoft Project file. I'd
like to get this integrated to make it easier to use. 

 

Right now I'm looking at summarize_time.cgi to see if I can add an
option to report how much time remains in a project instead of the
current reporting of how much time has been consumed.

 

Historical Qualifications 
 
  I've been developing software for over 25 years primarily in the
compiler and database space. Now I spend my time creating reports about
how other people are developing software. I'd like to automate that
process and get back to development.

 

Kenneth Block

Coverity, Inc.

 

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From mkanat at bugzilla.org  Wed Dec 24 17:39:16 2008
From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 09:39:16 -0800
Subject: Self Introduction: Ken Block
In-Reply-To: <FEFD432EA8DD2D45B110ACE93F8200FF01E8ED66@sf-ex-1.migcoverity.net>
References: <FEFD432EA8DD2D45B110ACE93F8200FF01E8ED66@sf-ex-1.migcoverity.net>
Message-ID: <20081224093916.0fa955b5@bugzilla.org>

On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 09:06:27 -0800 "Ken Block" <kblock at coverity.com>
wrote:
>   My primary interest is the reporting and project management aspects
> of Bugzilla.

	Great! Just so you know, our focus is explicitly not on Project
Management (it's been a common topic over the years), but we'd love to
provide hooks for plugins to provide better project management
features. :-)

	However, reporting is something we definitely want some help
with in core Bugzilla! :-) Nobody's worked on the reporting aspects of
Bugzilla since about 2004.

	And welcome, glad to "meet" you! :-)

	-Max
-- 
http://www.everythingsolved.com/
Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too.


From mkanat at bugzilla.org  Wed Dec 24 18:02:36 2008
From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 10:02:36 -0800
Subject: The Feature Acceptance Test
Message-ID: <20081224100236.6c295df3@bugzilla.org>

	Okay, so from the "Practicing What I Preach" department (see 
http://www.codesimplicity.com/archives/98 ), there's a certain test
that I am going to use as an approver from here on out as to whether or
not we want a particular feature. Other approvers are free to do
whatever they'd like, but in the areas that I control, this is the
question that I will be asking of every proposed feature:

	"How does this help people track bugs?"

	If you want to convince me that we should have a feature, write
a convincing answer to this question on the related bug. For some
features, it's obvious--for example, with Whining, the answer would
have been "Well, duh." That's obvious. You don't *have* to answer the
question to get a feature accepted, but I will be thinking about it
when I look at approving or not approving a feature.

	There are indirect things that can help people track bugs.
For example, making Bugzilla easier to install helps people track bugs
because it allows them to more easily install Bugzilla, which is a
piece of software that helps people track bugs.

	Certain features have the potential to introduce a lot of
complexity into Bugzilla. In that case, the question becomes:

	"Does this feature help people *enough* with tracking bugs to
justify the complexity?"

	I will prioritize my review queue largely on the question:

	"*How much* does this help people track bugs?"

	No matter how old or new a review request is, I will give it
more attention if I think your feature helps people track bugs even more
than some other feature.

	I understand that some people use Bugzilla for other things
than tracking bugs, but our focus is on being a bug tracker. Focused
products are better than unfocused products. People can still customize
Bugzilla to do things that aren't related to tracking bugs, or they can
write plugins. But the focus of core Bugzilla should be on helping
people track bugs.

	-Max
-- 
http://www.everythingsolved.com/
Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too.


From timeless at gmail.com  Thu Dec 25 17:39:33 2008
From: timeless at gmail.com (timeless)
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 09:39:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
References: <20081220105702.7209696a@bugzilla.org> <494E5124.4060501@sci.fi> 
	<mailman.808.1229880227.4225.dev-apps-bugzilla@lists.mozilla.org>
Message-ID: <30055512-7f7f-4a8f-9589-72a019e10172@r36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

On Dec 21, 7:23?pm, Max Kanat-Alexander <mka... at bugzilla.org> wrote:
> ? ? ? ? MXR isn't tied to any particular VCS, as far as I know.

while it is not "tied" to any particular VCS, it does to the extent
possible offer integration hooks with them.
If you load a mxr source page especially for files (but also in
certain cases for directories) you will get links in the top right
corner to various integration points.

bzr has proved to be the worst in supporting such links (I have a
draft change to support git, but I've investigated integrating with
loggerhead [including contacting their group on irc] and concluded it
is not practical at this point).
_______________________________________________
dev-apps-bugzilla mailing list
dev-apps-bugzilla at lists.mozilla.org
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-bugzilla


From timeless at gmail.com  Thu Dec 25 17:56:22 2008
From: timeless at gmail.com (timeless)
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 09:56:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
References: <20081220105702.7209696a@bugzilla.org> <494E5124.4060501@sci.fi> 
	<mailman.808.1229880227.4225.dev-apps-bugzilla@lists.mozilla.org>
Message-ID: <af942195-3fca-40d4-a177-6fdf958acf29@40g2000prx.googlegroups.com>

On Dec 21, 7:23?pm, Max Kanat-Alexander <mka... at bugzilla.org> wrote:
> ? ? ? ? MXR isn't tied to any particular VCS, as far as I know.

while it is not "tied" to any particular VCS, it does to the extent
possible offer integration hooks with them.
If you load a mxr source page especially for files (but also in
certain cases for directories) you will get links in the top right
corner to various integration points.

bzr has proved to be the worst in supporting such links (I have a
draft change to support git, but I've investigated integrating with
loggerhead [including contacting their group on irc] and concluded it
is not practical at this point).
_______________________________________________
dev-apps-bugzilla mailing list
dev-apps-bugzilla at lists.mozilla.org
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-bugzilla


From timeless at gmail.com  Thu Dec 25 17:56:24 2008
From: timeless at gmail.com (timeless)
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 09:56:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
References: <20081220105702.7209696a@bugzilla.org> <494E5124.4060501@sci.fi> 
	<mailman.808.1229880227.4225.dev-apps-bugzilla@lists.mozilla.org>
Message-ID: <8628c070-36ce-4d39-880a-24b792a1376c@r36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

On Dec 21, 7:23?pm, Max Kanat-Alexander <mka... at bugzilla.org> wrote:
> ? ? ? ? MXR isn't tied to any particular VCS, as far as I know.

while it is not "tied" to any particular VCS, it does to the extent
possible offer integration hooks with them.
If you load a mxr source page especially for files (but also in
certain cases for directories) you will get links in the top right
corner to various integration points.

bzr has proved to be the worst in supporting such links (I have a
draft change to support git, but I've investigated integrating with
loggerhead [including contacting their group on irc] and concluded it
is not practical at this point).
_______________________________________________
dev-apps-bugzilla mailing list
dev-apps-bugzilla at lists.mozilla.org
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-bugzilla


From timeless at gmail.com  Thu Dec 25 17:56:26 2008
From: timeless at gmail.com (timeless)
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 09:56:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
References: <20081220105702.7209696a@bugzilla.org> <494E5124.4060501@sci.fi> 
	<mailman.808.1229880227.4225.dev-apps-bugzilla@lists.mozilla.org>
Message-ID: <ad2cf154-9944-4ea3-9810-559aec5f3908@v5g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

On Dec 21, 7:23?pm, Max Kanat-Alexander <mka... at bugzilla.org> wrote:
> ? ? ? ? MXR isn't tied to any particular VCS, as far as I know.

while it is not "tied" to any particular VCS, it does to the extent
possible offer integration hooks with them.
If you load a mxr source page especially for files (but also in
certain cases for directories) you will get links in the top right
corner to various integration points.

bzr has proved to be the worst in supporting such links (I have a
draft change to support git, but I've investigated integrating with
loggerhead [including contacting their group on irc] and concluded it
is not practical at this point).
_______________________________________________
dev-apps-bugzilla mailing list
dev-apps-bugzilla at lists.mozilla.org
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-bugzilla


From mkanat at bugzilla.org  Thu Dec 25 21:42:38 2008
From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 15:42:38 -0600
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
In-Reply-To: <30055512-7f7f-4a8f-9589-72a019e10172@r36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
References: <20081220105702.7209696a@bugzilla.org> <494E5124.4060501@sci.fi> <mailman.808.1229880227.4225.dev-apps-bugzilla@lists.mozilla.org> <30055512-7f7f-4a8f-9589-72a019e10172@r36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50209a8f0ed48cd25e53a202067db105@localhost>


On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 09:39:33 -0800 (PST), timeless <timeless at gmail.com>
wrote:
> I've investigated integrating with
> loggerhead [including contacting their group on irc] and concluded it
> is not practical at this point).

  What functionality are you missing? If it's the access-by-path stuff that
you asked *me* about, that is available:

 
http://bzr.bugzilla.org/bugzilla/trunk/annotate/6363/Bugzilla/Constants.pm

  Or replace "6363" with "head:" to get the latest revision.

  Any other functionality you're missing that is actually important and
used by the Bugzilla Project, the loggerhead developers would be happy to
prioritize.

  -Max


From nbezzala at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 27 04:26:51 2008
From: nbezzala at yahoo.com (Nitish Bezzala)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 20:26:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Self-Introduction: Nitish Bezzala
Message-ID: <594691.99119.qm@web52908.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

 Full legal name : Nitish Bezzala
 Your IRC nick on irc.mozilla.org : nbezzala
 City, Country : Mumbai, India
 Profession or Student status : -
 Company, School, or other affiliation : -
 What do you want to help out with?- I've just installed bugzilla and am looking at the bugs marked fit for new developers. If anyone has any other ideas, please let me know.
 Historical qualifications
 What other technical projects have you worked on in the past? - 
Worked on staffing projects using a proprietary tool called Adapt for the last 3 years. Earlier created portals using OpenACS. Have worked on web services enabling a Perl backend for Abacus, so that a java GUI could be written instead of the command prompt.
 What level and type of computer skills do you have?- Perl, TCL, Javascript. 
 What other skills do you have that might be applicable? User
interface design, other so-called soft skills (people skills), etc.I have experience in leading teams, project management and offshoring.

 Anything else you'd like to say.-?


      
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From khampton at totalcinema.com  Sun Dec 28 17:18:23 2008
From: khampton at totalcinema.com (Kip Hampton)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 09:18:23 -0800
Subject: Self-Introduction: Kip Hampton
Message-ID: <4957B4DF.8040908@totalcinema.com>

Howdy Bugzilla Developers,

Per Bugzilla:Developers:Introduction on the wiki, here's my whack at the 
standard intro:

Full name: Kip Hampton

IRC /nick: ubu

City: Los Angeles, CA, US

Profession: Rake and Roustabout

What do you want to help out with:

In the immediate term, there are a few items on the "Good Bugs For 
N00bs" list that I'd like to knock down. In the longer term, to do 
whatever I can to keep Bugzilla at the top of the go-to list for issue 
tracking software. I'm generally a Perl + XML and RDF Guy so Buzilla 
seems the most natural place to volunteer to the larger Mozilla effort.

What other technical projects have you worked on in the past?

10+ years in the Web/Web Services business, working with organizations 
that cover the gambit from tiny 3-person teams to giant Fortune 100 Web 
Depts. In terms of Open Source work, I'm an Apache Software Foundation 
committer (and project management contact) on the AxKit project, I wrote 
/XML Web Publishing With AxKit/ for O'Reilly, and, apart from AxKit, I 
have several XML and RDF modules available on CPAN[1]

What other skills do you have that might be applicable?

Given sufficient prep time, my Carne Asada brings eyesight to the blind 
(sorry, vegans). More seriously, my DBA-fu is pretty strong (especially 
on Postgres) and I've done tons of UI/design work as well.

So... I suppose that's an intro. If anyone has specific questions, 
please don't hesitate.

Cheers,
-kip

[1] http://search.cpan.org/~khampton/


From mkanat at bugzilla.org  Sun Dec 28 19:29:25 2008
From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 13:29:25 -0600
Subject: Self-Introduction: Kip Hampton
In-Reply-To: <4957B4DF.8040908@totalcinema.com>
References: <4957B4DF.8040908@totalcinema.com>
Message-ID: <fff94b933a7d2cac7911193d6b79c3e2@localhost>


  Hey Kip! :-) This is a great introduction. My responses inline.

On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 09:18:23 -0800, Kip Hampton <khampton at totalcinema.com>
wrote:
> In the longer term, to do
> whatever I can to keep Bugzilla at the top of the go-to list for issue
> tracking software.

  Great! Once you're more comfortable with the codebase, probably the best
place to look for things like that is the list of P1 enhancements.

> Given sufficient prep time, my Carne Asada brings eyesight to the blind
> (sorry, vegans).

  Hahahaha, nice! :-)

> More seriously, my DBA-fu is pretty strong (especially
> on Postgres) and I've done tons of UI/design work as well.

  That's great, we could always use more Pg people around for the Pg stuff.
:-) And UI stuff is always welcome too!! :-)

  -Max


From bbaetz at acm.org  Wed Dec 31 04:16:20 2008
From: bbaetz at acm.org (Bradley Baetz)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 22:16:20 -0600
Subject: The Future of Performance: Scaling
In-Reply-To: <20081219054631.3bf208ca@bugzilla.org>
References: <20081219054631.3bf208ca@bugzilla.org>
Message-ID: <99435f5b0812302016n78a4dc25p4998b2c38c9b0b73@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 9:46 PM, Max Kanat-Alexander
<mkanat at bugzilla.org> wrote:
>        So, I was reading this:
>
>        http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/001198.html
>
>        And it was a good reminder of something that I've known
> for a long time, but sometimes had forgotten--the future of performance
> is, by and large, *scaling*, not optimizing. That is, tweaking our code
> is not the important thing--what's important is that people should be
> able to throw *more hardware* at Bugzilla to make it faster, if they
> need to.

In general, we scale read-only pretty well. The only issue I'm aware
of that prevents multiple web front ends is data/params and
localconfig (there is a bug on that IIRC). The dependency graphs
probably also require a shared datadir - not sure if theres a bug for
that one.

The shadowdb stuff pushes db reads off, but Bugzilla doesn't have a
clear goal as to how out of date data can be - if we relaxed the rules
a bit then some more queries could possibly move to the replication
db. However, I don't think that thats much of an issue given the
typical read:write ratio.

Bradley


From vitaly.fedrushkov at gmail.com  Wed Dec 31 04:29:01 2008
From: vitaly.fedrushkov at gmail.com (SnowyOwl)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 20:29:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
References: <mailman.764.1229799458.4225.dev-apps-bugzilla@lists.mozilla.org> 
	<EKKdnQgnOv7r6tDUnZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d@mozilla.org>
Message-ID: <b298c0d5-8047-40a6-b5da-f92af9f5b03f@a26g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

> A localization point of view.

Another l10n-related issue: currently there are sites updating
Bugzilla and localized temptate sets directly from their version
control systems (CVS, Subversion).  These systems have per-directory
version control containers (CVS, .svn, you know 'em all).  In
contrast, Bazaar apparently uses single .bzr directory at root level.

Bad news: how does one overlay several bzr-controlled trees?

Good news: with introduction of bzr-style branches (and perhaps more
fine-grained access control) l10n projects may really coexist in the
same repository.

  Regards,
  Vitaly.
_______________________________________________
dev-apps-bugzilla mailing list
dev-apps-bugzilla at lists.mozilla.org
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-bugzilla


From dottedmag at dottedmag.net  Wed Dec 31 08:39:46 2008
From: dottedmag at dottedmag.net (Mikhail Gusarov)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 14:39:46 +0600
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
In-Reply-To: <b298c0d5-8047-40a6-b5da-f92af9f5b03f@a26g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	(SnowyOwl's message of "Tue, 30 Dec 2008 20:29:01 -0800 (PST)")
References: <mailman.764.1229799458.4225.dev-apps-bugzilla@lists.mozilla.org>
	<EKKdnQgnOv7r6tDUnZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d@mozilla.org>
	<b298c0d5-8047-40a6-b5da-f92af9f5b03f@a26g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87fxk43fhp.fsf@frontier.dottedmag.net>

Twas brillig at 20:29:01 30.12.2008 UTC-08 when vitaly.fedrushkov at gmail.com did gyre and gimble:

 S> Bad news: how does one overlay several bzr-controlled trees?

Not a problem: just fetch from two repositories and merge them right on
the site (at least it works fine for git).

-- 
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From justdave at bugzilla.org  Wed Dec 31 09:02:08 2008
From: justdave at bugzilla.org (David Miller)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 04:02:08 -0500
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
In-Reply-To: <87fxk43fhp.fsf@frontier.dottedmag.net>
References: <mailman.764.1229799458.4225.dev-apps-bugzilla@lists.mozilla.org>	<EKKdnQgnOv7r6tDUnZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d@mozilla.org>	<b298c0d5-8047-40a6-b5da-f92af9f5b03f@a26g2000prf.googlegroups.com> <87fxk43fhp.fsf@frontier.dottedmag.net>
Message-ID: <495B3510.4080804@bugzilla.org>

Mikhail Gusarov wrote on 12/31/08 3:39 AM:
> Twas brillig at 20:29:01 30.12.2008 UTC-08 when vitaly.fedrushkov at gmail.com did gyre and gimble:
> 
>  S> Bad news: how does one overlay several bzr-controlled trees?
> 
> Not a problem: just fetch from two repositories and merge them right on
> the site (at least it works fine for git).

Yeah, we do that already on bmo, pulling both from the upstream repo and
our local one, and merging them as we go.

-- 
Dave Miller                                   http://www.justdave.net/
System Administrator, Mozilla Corporation      http://www.mozilla.com/
Project Leader, Bugzilla Bug Tracking System  http://www.bugzilla.org/


From shimono at mozilla.gr.jp  Wed Dec 31 09:07:19 2008
From: shimono at mozilla.gr.jp (Atsushi Shimono)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 18:07:19 +0900
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
In-Reply-To: <b298c0d5-8047-40a6-b5da-f92af9f5b03f@a26g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.764.1229799458.4225.dev-apps-bugzilla@lists.mozilla.org>
	<EKKdnQgnOv7r6tDUnZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d@mozilla.org>
	<b298c0d5-8047-40a6-b5da-f92af9f5b03f@a26g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <495B3647.7090608@mozilla.gr.jp>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

 hi,

SnowyOwl wrote:
>> A localization point of view.
> 
> Another l10n-related issue: currently there are sites updating
> Bugzilla and localized temptate sets directly from their version
> control systems (CVS, Subversion).  These systems have per-directory
> version control containers (CVS, .svn, you know 'em all).  In
> contrast, Bazaar apparently uses single .bzr directory at root level.
> 
> Bad news: how does one overlay several bzr-controlled trees?
> 
> Good news: with introduction of bzr-style branches (and perhaps more
> fine-grained access control) l10n projects may really coexist in the
> same repository.

  As a localization project (owner?), I think we'll have a separate
repository from the bugzilla.org for localization project itself.
  B/c, we have some different policies (accounts, check-ins etc.) for
our project, and might be same for each localization project.

  regards,
- --
Atsushi Shimono - shimono at mozilla.gr.jp
 http://www.mozilla.gr.jp/~shimono/blog/
 Mozilla-Gumi : Japanese Mozilla Users Group / System Administrator
 MDC Japan Project Leader, Bugzilla Localization Working Group Member
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_______________________________________________
dev-apps-bugzilla mailing list
dev-apps-bugzilla at lists.mozilla.org
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-bugzilla


From justdave at bugzilla.org  Wed Dec 31 09:38:42 2008
From: justdave at bugzilla.org (David Miller)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 04:38:42 -0500
Subject: Switching to Bazaar (bzr)
In-Reply-To: <495B3647.7090608@mozilla.gr.jp>
References: <mailman.764.1229799458.4225.dev-apps-bugzilla@lists.mozilla.org>	<EKKdnQgnOv7r6tDUnZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d@mozilla.org>	<b298c0d5-8047-40a6-b5da-f92af9f5b03f@a26g2000prf.googlegroups.com> <495B3647.7090608@mozilla.gr.jp>
Message-ID: <495B3DA2.4090108@bugzilla.org>

Atsushi Shimono wrote on 12/31/08 4:07 AM:
>   As a localization project (owner?), I think we'll have a separate
> repository from the bugzilla.org for localization project itself.
>   B/c, we have some different policies (accounts, check-ins etc.) for
> our project, and might be same for each localization project.

And that's the beauty of a DVCS.

There is no concept of a "central" repository, except for convention of
people treating a particular one that way.  You can merge back and forth
between different repositories whenever you feel like it.  So you could
have a bzr repo for your localization, and we could merge the central
server from it periodically in order to give people the convenience of
being able to check it out from one spot. (just an example)

-- 
Dave Miller                                   http://www.justdave.net/
System Administrator, Mozilla Corporation      http://www.mozilla.com/
Project Leader, Bugzilla Bug Tracking System  http://www.bugzilla.org/


From mkanat at bugzilla.org  Wed Dec 31 23:20:27 2008
From: mkanat at bugzilla.org (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 15:20:27 -0800
Subject: The Future of Performance: Scaling
In-Reply-To: <99435f5b0812302016n78a4dc25p4998b2c38c9b0b73@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20081219054631.3bf208ca@bugzilla.org>
	<99435f5b0812302016n78a4dc25p4998b2c38c9b0b73@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20081231152027.227bd3ba@bugzilla.org>

On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 22:16:20 -0600 "Bradley Baetz" <bbaetz at acm.org>
wrote:
> In general, we scale read-only pretty well. 

	Yeah, although there are a few operations that don't take as
much advantage of that as they could. There are probably a lot more
places where we could be using the shadow DB.

> The shadowdb stuff pushes db reads off, but Bugzilla doesn't have a
> clear goal as to how out of date data can be - if we relaxed the rules
> a bit then some more queries could possibly move to the replication
> db. However, I don't think that thats much of an issue given the
> typical read:write ratio.

	Yeah, on most installations I don't think it's an issue, but at
places like bmo it could always be handy to see what else we can push
off. Apparently the ratio of master reads to slave reads increased a
lot in 3.2 for some reason, and we should probably look into it.

	-Max
-- 
http://www.everythingsolved.com/
Competent, Friendly Bugzilla and Perl Services. Everything Else, too.