From dwilliss at microimages.com  Mon Nov  1 14:52:48 2004
From: dwilliss at microimages.com (Dave Williss)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 08:52:48 -0600
Subject: **SPAM** Re: Zarro Boogs?
References: <91bd01c4bdc2$79828b00$6e00000a@opus>                          <20041029142744.GA18898@www.async.com.br>
Message-ID: <b1bd01c4c022$a34a8ed0$6e00000a@opus>


> On Fri, Oct 29, 2004 at 09:20:13AM -0500, Dave Williss wrote:
>> Were does the Zarro Boogs message come from? I'm told it looks
>> "unprofessional" and I have to change it :-(
>
> It's a FAQ, I believe; it has to do with the fact that no software ever
> is free of bugs (and your management knows that, right? <wink>)
>
While I agree that no software is ever free of bugs, doing a query on
something  that doesn't exist (something management types are likely
to do :-) gives this message, so the only person who will see it and care
is the PHB who signs the pay checks.

> Either tell people to lighten up or fix it in the template. Please don't
> suggest we make a terms.zarrobugs constant.
>

I found it in a template, the same one where you can change the term
"bug" to something else.  Glad I found it too, because I anticipate his
next complaint will be "we don't have bugs, we have errors." (Something
he's told Tech Support in the past).  But since New Feature Requests
are just "bugs" with "enhancement"severity, we can't call them all errors.
I expect the Sr. programmer will back me up on that one.




From justdave at bugzilla.org  Sun Nov  7 06:49:38 2004
From: justdave at bugzilla.org (David Miller)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 01:49:38 -0500
Subject: 2.18 release push
Message-ID: <418DC582.7040101@bugzilla.org>

OK, it's been a couple weeks since rc3 went out, and I haven't seen any 
serious release blockers show up.  We still have a couple blocking2.18+ 
bugs left, if anyone who has some time can look into attacking them 
(some have patches that just need review, others need patches).

There is a link to a query which returns all blocking2.18+ bugs on 
http://www.bugzilla.org/releases/2.18/

-- 
Dave Miller      Project Leader, Bugzilla Bug Tracking System
http://www.justdave.net/             http://www.bugzilla.org/


From lee at netzentry.com  Tue Nov  9 21:44:24 2004
From: lee at netzentry.com (Lee Ivy)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 13:44:24 -0800
Subject: Controlling the # of remembered queries that have quick links
In-Reply-To: <418DC582.7040101@bugzilla.org>
References: <418DC582.7040101@bugzilla.org>
Message-ID: <41913A38.3040502@netzentry.com>

This is probably an easy question. We are running bugzilla 2.16.7.

When a user saves a "remembered query", a handy link appears at the 
bottom of nearly every screen, allowing one-click access to the query. 
This is a cool feature.

But on our system, when a user creates his 3rd remembered query, the 
feature does not kick in -- the quick links show "My Bugs" and the first 
2 remembered queries.

I assume he is hitting some sort of limit, and I'm hoping that limit is 
easily changed, but I looked thru "edit parameters" and did not see what 
I was looking for.

How is this controlled and how difficult is it to allow more than 2? 
(and is there a penalty, performance or otherwise, for doing so)?

By the way, I have seen the announcements about newer versions of 
bugzilla being available, we really will get around to trying them, we 
just have other pressing things to worry about at the moment.

Thanks,

/Lee Ivy
QA Architect
netZentry, Inc.
lee at netzentry.com/
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From chicks at chicks.net  Tue Nov  9 21:54:18 2004
From: chicks at chicks.net (Christopher Hicks)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 16:54:18 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Controlling the # of remembered queries that have quick links
In-Reply-To: <41913A38.3040502@netzentry.com>
References: <418DC582.7040101@bugzilla.org> <41913A38.3040502@netzentry.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0411091652260.11752@skippy.fini.net>

On Tue, 9 Nov 2004, Lee Ivy wrote:
> How is this controlled and how difficult is it to allow more than 2? (and is 
> there a penalty, performance or otherwise, for doing so)?

I haven't run into this on 2.17.x or 2.18rc.  I haven't searched bz's bz, 
but I suspect this bug has been squashed.

> By the way, I have seen the announcements about newer versions of 
> bugzilla being available, we really will get around to trying them, we 
> just have other pressing things to worry about at the moment.

The 2.18rc's are quite nice and worth making some time for.  It would make 
isolating your problem much easier if you were current.  I suspect your 
difficulties would go away with an upgrade, but that's no guarantee.  :)

-- 
</chris>

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. -Bertrand
Russell, philosopher, mathematician, author, Nobel laureate (1872-1970)


From davef at d2.com  Tue Nov  9 23:16:39 2004
From: davef at d2.com (David Fallon)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 15:16:39 -0800
Subject: Controlling the # of remembered queries that have quick links
In-Reply-To: <41913A38.3040502@netzentry.com>
References: <418DC582.7040101@bugzilla.org> <41913A38.3040502@netzentry.com>
Message-ID: <41914FD7.9050809@d2.com>

It may be worth searching bugzilla.org to see if the bug was closed, and 
it what version - I'm using 2.16.3, and have 10-12 odd queries in my 
footer (so things are working fine).

dave

Lee Ivy wrote:
> This is probably an easy question. We are running bugzilla 2.16.7.
> 
> When a user saves a "remembered query", a handy link appears at the 
> bottom of nearly every screen, allowing one-click access to the query. 
> This is a cool feature.
> 
> But on our system, when a user creates his 3rd remembered query, the 
> feature does not kick in -- the quick links show "My Bugs" and the first 
> 2 remembered queries.
> 
> I assume he is hitting some sort of limit, and I'm hoping that limit is 
> easily changed, but I looked thru "edit parameters" and did not see what 
> I was looking for.
> 
> How is this controlled and how difficult is it to allow more than 2? 
> (and is there a penalty, performance or otherwise, for doing so)?
> 
> By the way, I have seen the announcements about newer versions of 
> bugzilla being available, we really will get around to trying them, we 
> just have other pressing things to worry about at the moment.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> /Lee Ivy
> QA Architect
> netZentry, Inc.
> lee at netzentry.com/


From davef at d2.com  Tue Nov  9 23:39:25 2004
From: davef at d2.com (David Fallon)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 15:39:25 -0800
Subject: get patches reviewed?
Message-ID: <4191552D.9060308@d2.com>

I've got a decently long-standing bug 
(https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=254860) in bugzilla, 
that's a minor feature. It includes a patch I wrote, because I'd like to 
  contribute back to bugzilla in thanks for all the hard work people 
have put into it, and figured the best way to do that (sans cash) is 
contributing code back. Plus, I have the selfish reason of if this patch 
gets into bugzilla, I don't have to patch future upgrades.

So, that all being said, it's been 3 months since the initial bug 
submission, and nothing has happened. Please note this isn't a 
complaint, as I deeply appreciate everyone's busy, but a question on if 
there's a better way to proceed. I'm happy to do the legwork to see this 
through - should I be emailing people directly? Go onto IRC? Snail mail? ;)

dave


From timeless at myrealbox.com  Wed Nov 10 00:06:41 2004
From: timeless at myrealbox.com (timeless)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 16:06:41 -0800
Subject: get patches reviewed?
In-Reply-To: <4191552D.9060308@d2.com>
References: <4191552D.9060308@d2.com>
Message-ID: <41915B91.2010001@myrealbox.com>

David Fallon wrote:
> So, that all being said, it's been 3 months since the initial bug 
> submission, and nothing has happened.


> Please note this [is] a question on if there's a better way to proceed.

> I'm happy to do the legwork to see this 
> through - should I be emailing people directly? Go onto IRC? Snail mail? ;)

set a request to someone. i'd suggest checking cvs blame and picking one 
of the people listed near the top few changes. since i couldn't remember 
everyone's bugmail address, i picked the first one that worked lazily.

for help figuring out who those people are (if you can't find them on 
bugzilla's who's who page), visiting or hanging out on irc.mozilla.org 
#mozwebtools is a good idea.


From stu at asyn.com  Wed Nov 10 17:45:36 2004
From: stu at asyn.com (Stuart Donaldson)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:45:36 -0800
Subject: Standard reports
Message-ID: <419253C0.8060108@asyn.com>

Is there a solution for customizing standard reporting?

in particular, I am thinking about something with more specifics than 
the standard series information uses.  I want to create a series of 
standard reports for things like:

    Open
    Open Hot
    In Test
    New in last week

I know I can set up bookmarks for these, but I run upwards of 30-40 
products, and more coming on line all the time, so having to do this 
specifically for each product is a big pain. 

-Stuart-


From bugreport at peshkin.net  Wed Nov 10 18:22:35 2004
From: bugreport at peshkin.net (Joel Peshkin)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:22:35 -0800
Subject: Standard reports
In-Reply-To: <419253C0.8060108@asyn.com>
References: <419253C0.8060108@asyn.com>
Message-ID: <41925C6B.4020501@peshkin.net>

Stuart,

   I am copying the newsgroup since this belongs there rather than on 
the developers list.

   2.19 has a new whining feature that would let you schedule reports 
from saved queries to be sent to you on a schedule.

-Joel

Stuart Donaldson wrote:

> Is there a solution for customizing standard reporting?
>
> in particular, I am thinking about something with more specifics than 
> the standard series information uses.  I want to create a series of 
> standard reports for things like:
> <snip>
>
> I know I can set up bookmarks for these, but I run upwards of 30-40 
> products, and more coming on line all the time, so having to do this 
> specifically for each product is a big pain.
> -Stuart-




From tcunningham at vfa.com  Wed Nov 10 18:44:35 2004
From: tcunningham at vfa.com (Cunningham, Tom)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:44:35 -0500
Subject: Standard reports
Message-ID: <D251C7BB8F0AFB46B5F11FFDB26CA6EF0139A0F7@mailman.bos.vfa>


I'm not sure whether that was the question.   The question was whether
there was a way to create generic reports that get applied to whatever
the "current product" is, just like the 'My Bugs' query is applied to
whomever the current user is.

Is there anything like this in BZ?  

-----Original Message-----
From: developers-owner at bugzilla.org
[mailto:developers-owner at bugzilla.org] On Behalf Of Joel Peshkin
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 1:23 PM
To: developers at bugzilla.org
Subject: Re: Standard reports

Stuart,

   I am copying the newsgroup since this belongs there rather than on 
the developers list.

   2.19 has a new whining feature that would let you schedule reports 
from saved queries to be sent to you on a schedule.

-Joel

Stuart Donaldson wrote:

> Is there a solution for customizing standard reporting?
>
> in particular, I am thinking about something with more specifics than 
> the standard series information uses.  I want to create a series of 
> standard reports for things like:
> <snip>
>
> I know I can set up bookmarks for these, but I run upwards of 30-40 
> products, and more coming on line all the time, so having to do this 
> specifically for each product is a big pain.
> -Stuart-


-
To view or change your list settings, click here:
<http://bugzilla.org/cgi-bin/mj_wwwusr?user=tcunningham at vfa.com>



From lee at netzentry.com  Wed Nov 10 18:51:44 2004
From: lee at netzentry.com (Lee Ivy)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:51:44 -0800
Subject: Controlling the # of remembered queries that have quick links
In-Reply-To: <41914FD7.9050809@d2.com>
References: <418DC582.7040101@bugzilla.org> <41913A38.3040502@netzentry.com> <41914FD7.9050809@d2.com>
Message-ID: <41926340.3060703@netzentry.com>

After doing some more digging, it appeared nobody else in the world was 
having this problem. I tried a few experiments -- finally, in 
desperation, I tried saving the new query with a different name -- and 
now it appears happily on the footer as expected!

The original choice of name was "toverify" -- is this some sort of 
reserved name? The new choice "resolved" works fine. Please advise if 
this is worth logging as a new bug on bugzilla.mozilla.org (I couldn't 
find anything similar).

/Lee Ivy
QA Architect
netZentry, Inc.
lee at netzentry.com/

David Fallon wrote:

> It may be worth searching bugzilla.org to see if the bug was closed, 
> and it what version - I'm using 2.16.3, and have 10-12 odd queries in 
> my footer (so things are working fine).
>
> dave
>
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From chicks at chicks.net  Wed Nov 10 19:09:28 2004
From: chicks at chicks.net (Christopher Hicks)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:09:28 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Controlling the # of remembered queries that have quick links
In-Reply-To: <41926340.3060703@netzentry.com>
References: <418DC582.7040101@bugzilla.org> <41913A38.3040502@netzentry.com>
 <41914FD7.9050809@d2.com> <41926340.3060703@netzentry.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0411101409000.11752@skippy.fini.net>

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004, Lee Ivy wrote:
> The original choice of name was "toverify" -- is this some sort of reserved 
> name? The new choice "resolved" works fine. Please advise if this is worth 
> logging as a new bug on bugzilla.mozilla.org (I couldn't find anything 
> similar).

Does "toverify" show up in your footer preferences?

-- 
</chris>

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. -Bertrand
Russell, philosopher, mathematician, author, Nobel laureate (1872-1970)


From lee at netzentry.com  Wed Nov 10 20:01:30 2004
From: lee at netzentry.com (Lee Ivy)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:01:30 -0800
Subject: Controlling the # of remembered queries that have quick links
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0411101409000.11752@skippy.fini.net>
References: <418DC582.7040101@bugzilla.org> <41913A38.3040502@netzentry.com> <41914FD7.9050809@d2.com> <41926340.3060703@netzentry.com> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0411101409000.11752@skippy.fini.net>
Message-ID: <4192739A.4020800@netzentry.com>

Yes it does, and that was the root of our problem -- somehow "toverify" 
did not have the option set to appear in the footer. Thanks for the tip 
-- case closed!

Lee

Christopher Hicks wrote:

> Does "toverify" show up in your footer preferences?
>



From luis.villa at gmail.com  Thu Nov 11 05:08:32 2004
From: luis.villa at gmail.com (Luis Villa)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 00:08:32 -0500
Subject: big thanks- bugzilla.novell.com is up
Message-ID: <2cb10c44041110210842e48f53@mail.gmail.com>

Hey, all- 

I just wanted to extend a big thanks. bugzilla.novell.com went live
today; it's sort of hard to 'see' (you have to register with novell to
get a bugzilla.novell account) but it is there, and will be used both
internally and externally going forward. Thanks to everyone who has
helped out the bugzilla project over the years.

Luis

P.S. bugzilla.ximian will be going away eventually, so might be time
to update this: http://www.bugzilla.org/installation-list/ :)


From myk at mozilla.org  Thu Nov 11 05:17:06 2004
From: myk at mozilla.org (Myk Melez)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:17:06 -0800
Subject: big thanks- bugzilla.novell.com is up
In-Reply-To: <2cb10c44041110210842e48f53@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2cb10c44041110210842e48f53@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4192F5D2.9050706@mozilla.org>

Luis Villa wrote:

>I just wanted to extend a big thanks. bugzilla.novell.com went live
>today; it's sort of hard to 'see' (you have to register with novell to
>get a bugzilla.novell account) but it is there, and will be used both
>internally and externally going forward. Thanks to everyone who has
>helped out the bugzilla project over the years.
>  
>
Luis,

That's awesome!  Congratulations, we look forward to great things from 
the new installation.

-myk



From chicks at chicks.net  Thu Nov 11 16:42:44 2004
From: chicks at chicks.net (Christopher Hicks)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 11:42:44 -0500 (EST)
Subject: removing old email addresses from cc
In-Reply-To: <2cb10c4404111108262d81ddf0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cmb98m$98j1@ripley.netscape.com>  <1099559432.31467.14.camel@localhost.localdomain>
  <cmg9ua$mo71@ripley.netscape.com>  <mailman.1099673537.18744.mozilla-webtools@mozilla.org>
  <cmge5m$nss1@ripley.netscape.com>  <1099689880.23166.2.camel@skynet.rchland.ibm.com>
 <2cb10c4404111108262d81ddf0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0411111139090.4528@skippy.fini.net>

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, Luis Villa wrote:
> On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 15:24:40 -0600, Jon Tollefson <kniht at us.ibm.com> wrote:
>> Would there ever be a need to disable an account but still send it
>> e-mail notices?  If not then it would be even easier to just not send
>> mail to disabled accounts.
>
> This certainly seems to be the behavior everyone expects to see...
> would someone object to a patch that implemented this?

This makes a lot of sense to me.  Does anybody know of an existing bug 
that covers this?  A related issue seems to be:

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=148069

This bug confuses me since I didn't think there was a working email 
interface currently.  Did I miss something?

-- 
</chris>

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. -Bertrand
Russell, philosopher, mathematician, author, Nobel laureate (1872-1970)


From timeless at myrealbox.com  Thu Nov 11 19:18:41 2004
From: timeless at myrealbox.com (timeless)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 11:18:41 -0800
Subject: removing old email addresses from cc
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0411111139090.4528@skippy.fini.net>
References: <cmb98m$98j1@ripley.netscape.com>  <1099559432.31467.14.camel@localhost.localdomain>  <cmg9ua$mo71@ripley.netscape.com>  <mailman.1099673537.18744.mozilla-webtools@mozilla.org>  <cmge5m$nss1@ripley.netscape.com>  <1099689880.23166.2.camel@skynet.rchland.ibm.com> <2cb10c4404111108262d81ddf0@mail.gmail.com> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0411111139090.4528@skippy.fini.net>
Message-ID: <4193BB11.1080009@myrealbox.com>

Jon Tollefson <kniht at us.ibm.com> wrote:
> Would there ever be a need to disable an account but still send it
> e-mail notices?  If not then it would be even easier to just not send
> mail to disabled accounts.

An account is a mailing list, e.g. security at mozilla.org or 
developers at bugzilla.org or a newsgroup feed mozilla-webtools at mozilla.org

you want it to get mail, but you don't want people to ask for the 
password, to change the password, or to log in as that user.

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, Luis Villa wrote:
> This certainly seems to be the behavior everyone expects to see...
> would someone object to a patch that implemented this?

i object. strenuously.

Christopher Hicks wrote:
> This makes a lot of sense to me.  Does anybody know of an existing bug 
> that covers this?  A related issue seems to be:
> 
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=148069
> 
> This bug confuses me since I didn't think there was a working email 
> interface currently.  Did I miss something?

it's in contrib. it's not officially supported.

as to assigning bugs to a disabled account, i like assigning bugs to 
nobody at mozilla.org, but i don't want nobody at mozilla.org to log in.

note that a disabled account is not offered by completion, so typing 
nobody@ will not suggest nobody at mozilla.org


From vladd at bugzilla.org  Thu Nov 11 19:25:17 2004
From: vladd at bugzilla.org (Vlad Dascalu)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:25:17 +0200
Subject: removing old email addresses from cc
In-Reply-To: <4193BB11.1080009@myrealbox.com>
References: <cmb98m$98j1@ripley.netscape.com>  <1099559432.31467.14.camel@localhost.localdomain>  <cmg9ua$mo71@ripley.netscape.com>  <mailman.1099673537.18744.mozilla-webtools@mozilla.org>  <cmge5m$nss1@ripley.netscape.com>  <1099689880.23166.2.camel@skynet.rchland.ibm.com> <2cb10c4404111108262d81ddf0@mail.gmail.com> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0411111139090.4528@skippy.fini.net> <4193BB11.1080009@myrealbox.com>
Message-ID: <4193BC9D.6030309@bugzilla.org>


>> Would there ever be a need to disable an account but still send it
>> e-mail notices?  If not then it would be even easier to just not send
>> mail to disabled accounts.
>
>> This certainly seems to be the behavior everyone expects to see...
>> would someone object to a patch that implemented this?
>
>
> i object. strenuously.

Probably having a checkbox for optionally disabling email as well would 
please everybody.

Thanks,
Vlad.


From timeless at myrealbox.com  Thu Nov 11 19:34:12 2004
From: timeless at myrealbox.com (timeless)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 11:34:12 -0800
Subject: removing old email addresses from cc
In-Reply-To: <4193BC9D.6030309@bugzilla.org>
References: <cmb98m$98j1@ripley.netscape.com>  <1099559432.31467.14.camel@localhost.localdomain>  <cmg9ua$mo71@ripley.netscape.com>  <mailman.1099673537.18744.mozilla-webtools@mozilla.org>  <cmge5m$nss1@ripley.netscape.com>  <1099689880.23166.2.camel@skynet.rchland.ibm.com> <2cb10c4404111108262d81ddf0@mail.gmail.com> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0411111139090.4528@skippy.fini.net> <4193BB11.1080009@myrealbox.com> <4193BC9D.6030309@bugzilla.org>
Message-ID: <4193BEB4.6070802@myrealbox.com>

> Would there ever be a need to disable an account but still send it
> e-mail notices?  If not then it would be even easier to just not send
> mail to disabled accounts.

Vlad Dascalu wrote:
> Probably having a checkbox for optionally disabling email as well would 
> please everybody.

i would not object to that :)


From luis.villa at gmail.com  Thu Nov 11 21:23:12 2004
From: luis.villa at gmail.com (Luis Villa)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 16:23:12 -0500
Subject: removing old email addresses from cc
In-Reply-To: <4193BB11.1080009@myrealbox.com>
References: <cmb98m$98j1@ripley.netscape.com>
	 <1099559432.31467.14.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	 <cmg9ua$mo71@ripley.netscape.com>
	 <mailman.1099673537.18744.mozilla-webtools@mozilla.org>
	 <cmge5m$nss1@ripley.netscape.com>
	 <1099689880.23166.2.camel@skynet.rchland.ibm.com>
	 <2cb10c4404111108262d81ddf0@mail.gmail.com>
	 <Pine.LNX.4.61.0411111139090.4528@skippy.fini.net>
	 <4193BB11.1080009@myrealbox.com>
Message-ID: <2cb10c44041111132369eb8eb6@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 11:18:41 -0800, timeless <timeless at myrealbox.com> wrote:
> Jon Tollefson <kniht at us.ibm.com> wrote:
> > Would there ever be a need to disable an account but still send it
> > e-mail notices?  If not then it would be even easier to just not send
> > mail to disabled accounts.
> 
> An account is a mailing list, e.g. security at mozilla.org or
> developers at bugzilla.org or a newsgroup feed mozilla-webtools at mozilla.org
> 
> you want it to get mail, but you don't want people to ask for the
> password, to change the password, or to log in as that user.

It seems like the behavior you want there is not 'disable user' but
something else- perhaps a different account type for lists. Certainly
we'd find that useful.

[As an aside, it is terrible design practice to cripple one feature on
purpose and make it behave completely differently from what everyone
expects because someone has had a lack of a different feature and
grafted this one to fit their needs. Don't continue to break the one
feature, fix it and do something else to fulfill the other needs.]

Luis


From kevin.benton at amd.com  Fri Nov 12 18:00:59 2004
From: kevin.benton at amd.com (Kevin Benton)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:00:59 -0700
Subject: removing old email addresses from cc
In-Reply-To: <4193BEB4.6070802@myrealbox.com>
Message-ID: <20041112180059.9636460E5D@ldcmail.amd.com>

As a process improvement over the version we have (2.17.4), it seems to me
that moving from empty/non-empty to sense enabled/disabled state to a
checkbox for disabling the user would also be wise, especially since
non-printable characters are potentially problematic in the disabled text.
I haven't gotten deep enough into the code yet, however, I feel I must ask -
when Bugzilla senses the state change from enabled to disabled as a result
of an edit, does Bugzilla ask to confirm disabling the user or does it just
accept the change without warning?  I ask because of the caution in the
manual from 2.16.x.

Kevin Benton
Perl/Bugzilla Developer
Advanced Micro Devices

-----Original Message-----
From: developers-owner at bugzilla.org [mailto:developers-owner at bugzilla.org]
On Behalf Of timeless
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 12:34 PM
To: developers at bugzilla.org
Subject: Re: removing old email addresses from cc

> Would there ever be a need to disable an account but still send it
> e-mail notices?  If not then it would be even easier to just not send
> mail to disabled accounts.

Vlad Dascalu wrote:
> Probably having a checkbox for optionally disabling email as well would 
> please everybody.

i would not object to that :)
-
To view or change your list settings, click here:
<http://bugzilla.org/cgi-bin/mj_wwwusr?user=kevin.benton at amd.com>





From justdave at bugzilla.org  Fri Nov 12 18:37:18 2004
From: justdave at bugzilla.org (David Miller)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 13:37:18 -0500
Subject: removing old email addresses from cc
In-Reply-To: <20041112180059.9636460E5D@ldcmail.amd.com>
References: <20041112180059.9636460E5D@ldcmail.amd.com>
Message-ID: <419502DE.1020806@bugzilla.org>

Kevin Benton wrote:
> As a process improvement over the version we have (2.17.4), it seems to me
> that moving from empty/non-empty to sense enabled/disabled state to a
> checkbox for disabling the user would also be wise, especially since
> non-printable characters are potentially problematic in the disabled text.
> I haven't gotten deep enough into the code yet, however, I feel I must ask -
> when Bugzilla senses the state change from enabled to disabled as a result
> of an edit, does Bugzilla ask to confirm disabling the user or does it just
> accept the change without warning?  I ask because of the caution in the
> manual from 2.16.x.

Yeah, agreed.  The existing disabledtext mechanism (while certainly 
efficient from a database schema perspective) is kind of a gross hack as 
far as the UI goes.  That's something I'd very much agree on: adding a 
checkbox for the disabled state, and making disabledtext optional if you 
wanted to provide additional information to the user.

In fact, instead of "disabled" then new checkboxes ought to look 
something like this:

[X] Allow this user to log in
[X] Allow this user to receive email from Bugzilla

or

[ ] Prevent this user from logging in
[ ] Don't send email to this user

-- 
Dave Miller      Project Leader, Bugzilla Bug Tracking System
http://www.justdave.net/             http://www.bugzilla.org/


From chicks at chicks.net  Fri Nov 12 18:42:11 2004
From: chicks at chicks.net (Christopher Hicks)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 13:42:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: CGI interface to Bugzilla schema documentation (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0411121341380.8956@skippy.fini.net>

Since the developers list didn't seem to get a copy of this...

-- 
</chris>

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. -Bertrand
Russell, philosopher, mathematician, author, Nobel laureate (1872-1970)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 13:18:31 +0000
From: Nick Barnes <Nick.Barnes at pobox.com>
To: mozilla-webtools at mozilla.org
Cc: p4dti-staff at ravenbrook.com
Subject: CGI interface to Bugzilla schema documentation

[resending from member address]

I am proud to announce a CGI interface to the Bugzilla schema
documentation which I write and maintain as part of the Perforce
Defect Tracking Interface (P4DTI) project.

It can generate a documented schema for any specific version of
Bugzilla (from 2.10 to 2.19.1) or for any range of versions, with
schema changes indicated by colour and textual annotations.

I have added documentation covering recent changes, such as the
category_group_map in 2.18rc3 and the new whine system in 2.19.1.

<http://www.ravenbrook.com/project/p4dti/tool/cgi/bugzilla-schema/>

Errors and misunderstandings are mine (and may get fixed if you report
them to me!).

Please will someone on the developers mailing list pass this on to
that list.

Regards,

Nick Barnes
P4DTI Project
Ravenbrook Limited
_______________________________________________
mozilla-webtools mailing list
mozilla-webtools at mozilla.org
http://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/mozilla-webtools


From kevin.benton at amd.com  Fri Nov 12 19:02:13 2004
From: kevin.benton at amd.com (Kevin Benton)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 12:02:13 -0700
Subject: Adding Category
Message-ID: <20041112190213.47F8560E5D@ldcmail.amd.com>

For those that have not yet met me in this list, my name is Kevin and I will
be doing Perl/Bugzilla development/administration over the next twelve
months or more for AMD.  My boss has asked me to become an active part of
this community and where it makes sense, to contribute code to the public
versions of Bugzilla.

 

Currently, AMD has a number of Bugzilla databases used to track a number of
different product types.  This has become problematic because the code has
forked, each having its own version, some based on 2.17.3, some on 2.17.4.
How would the community receive a change adding an additional level of
hierarchy of tracking?  I would like to add Category as a parent to Product
(and will locally) so that we can track different categories of problems
such as software, hardware, process, etc.

 

I'm also wondering how others in this list feel about the overall design of
Bugzilla with respect to object-oriented-ness and how easy/difficult it is
to maintain the field listings.  It seems to me that at this point, when a
user wants to make a change, they must touch a number of files to add a new
field for example.  I would have hoped that a field definition table would
contain all the pertinent information and that routines would be defined
relative to that table.  I really like how Bugzilla uses the TT, but I have
to wonder, is there a way to make it easier to manage the display of
information?

 

Kevin Benton

Perl/Bugzilla Developer

Advanced Micro Devices

 

 

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From justdave at bugzilla.org  Fri Nov 12 19:10:49 2004
From: justdave at bugzilla.org (David Miller)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 14:10:49 -0500
Subject: Adding Category
In-Reply-To: <20041112190213.47F8560E5D@ldcmail.amd.com>
References: <20041112190213.47F8560E5D@ldcmail.amd.com>
Message-ID: <41950AB9.2020208@bugzilla.org>

Kevin Benton wrote:

> How would the community receive a change adding an 
> additional level of hierarchy of tracking?  I would like to add Category 
> as a parent to Product (and will locally) so that we can track different 
> categories of problems such as software, hardware, process, etc.

Already been done. :)  Grab 2.19.1

> I?m also wondering how others in this list feel about the overall design 
> of Bugzilla with respect to object-oriented-ness and how easy/difficult 
> it is to maintain the field listings.  It seems to me that at this 
> point, when a user wants to make a change, they must touch a number of 
> files to add a new field for example.  I would have hoped that a field 
> definition table would contain all the pertinent information and that 
> routines would be defined relative to that table.  I really like how 
> Bugzilla uses the TT, but I have to wonder, is there a way to make it 
> easier to manage the display of information?

This has been the topic of huge debates. :)  Rather than hash it all out 
again, you should have a look at the (LONG) conversation in 
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=91037 and the archives of 
this list for the month of March 2004.

-- 
Dave Miller      Project Leader, Bugzilla Bug Tracking System
http://www.justdave.net/             http://www.bugzilla.org/


From kevin.benton at amd.com  Tue Nov 16 22:55:06 2004
From: kevin.benton at amd.com (Kevin Benton)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 15:55:06 -0700
Subject: editcomponents.cgi / process_bug.cgi conflict resolution
Message-ID: <20041116225505.7096260E5D@ldcmail.amd.com>

Wow - I'm looking at what's changed in editcomponents.cgi versus 2.17.4 and
I'm having a difficult time resolving the differences.  Anyone here have a
pointer or two?  I actually have seven pages (not bad considering that it
was over 90,000 lines before I started) of unified diff output telling me
what patch couldn't fix when it tried to help me resolve changes that were
made here against 2.17.4 prior to my arrival.  Now that we're attempting to
get current (->2.19.1), I don't have a frame of reference on how
editcomponents.cgi changed or how to make the necessary changes.  I'm also
trying to figure out the changes in process_bug.cgi near lines 94 - 105
(2.17.4).  Since we created our own assigned_todropdown field, my
predecessor ended up using this area to insert his code to handle the
dropdown.

 

Kevin Benton

Perl/Bugzilla Developer

Advanced Micro Devices

 

 

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From mkanat at kerio.com  Wed Nov 17 01:36:20 2004
From: mkanat at kerio.com (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 17:36:20 -0800
Subject: Goals for 2.22?
Message-ID: <1100655380.5084.48.camel@localhost.localdomain>

	I'd like to have 2.22 be the "custom fields and cross-DB release."

	Any other thoughts? I know that we're time-based, not feature-based,
but I think it's still good to have some goals in mind.

	-Max




From bugzilla at chimpychompy.org  Wed Nov 17 09:24:44 2004
From: bugzilla at chimpychompy.org (GavinS)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 09:24:44 +0000
Subject: editcomponents.cgi / process_bug.cgi conflict resolution
In-Reply-To: <20041116225505.7096260E5D@ldcmail.amd.com>
References: <20041116225505.7096260E5D@ldcmail.amd.com>
Message-ID: <16795.6364.246694.598183@offsite.i418.iplbath.com>


re: editcomponents: it was templatised, and at the same time it's use
of $::FORM was changed to use $cgi->param

I don't remember there being any other functional changes.

>>>>> "Kevin" == Kevin Benton <kevin.benton at amd.com> writes:

Kevin> Wow - I'm looking at what's changed in editcomponents.cgi
Kevin> versus 2.17.4 and I'm having a difficult time resolving the
Kevin> differences.  Anyone here have a pointer or two?  I actually
Kevin> have seven pages (not bad considering that it was over 90,000
Kevin> lines before I started) of unified diff output telling me what
Kevin> patch couldn't fix when it tried to help me resolve changes
Kevin> that were made here against 2.17.4 prior to my arrival.  Now
Kevin> that we're attempting to get current (->2.19.1), I don't have a
Kevin> frame of reference on how editcomponents.cgi changed or how to
Kevin> make the necessary changes.  I'm also trying to figure out the
Kevin> changes in process_bug.cgi near lines 94 - 105 (2.17.4).  Since
Kevin> we created our own assigned_todropdown field, my predecessor
Kevin> ended up using this area to insert his code to handle the
Kevin> dropdown.

 

Kevin> Kevin Benton

Kevin> Perl/Bugzilla Developer

Kevin> Advanced Micro Devices

 

 

Kevin> <html xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"
Kevin> xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word"
Kevin> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">

Kevin> <head> <meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html;
Kevin> charset=us-ascii"> <meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word
Kevin> 11 (filtered medium)"> <style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */
Kevin> p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in;
Kevin> margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New
Kevin> Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue;
Kevin> text-decoration:underline;} a:visited,
Kevin> span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;
Kevin> text-decoration:underline;} span.EmailStyle17
Kevin> {mso-style-type:personal-compose; font-family:Arial;
Kevin> color:windowtext;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in;
Kevin> margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;} div.Section1
Kevin> {page:Section1;}
-->
Kevin> </style>

Kevin> </head>

Kevin> <body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple>

Kevin> <div class=Section1>

Kevin> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span
Kevin> style='font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial'>Wow &#8211;
Kevin> I&#8217;m looking at what&#8217;s changed in editcomponents.cgi
Kevin> versus 2.17.4 and I&#8217;m having a difficult time resolving
Kevin> the differences.&nbsp; Anyone here have a pointer or two?&nbsp;
Kevin> I actually have seven pages (not bad considering that it was
Kevin> over 90,000 lines before I started) of unified diff output
Kevin> telling me what patch couldn&#8217;t fix when it tried to help
Kevin> me resolve changes that were made here against 2.17.4 prior to
Kevin> my arrival.&nbsp; Now that we&#8217;re attempting to get
Kevin> current (-&gt;2.19.1), I don&#8217;t have a frame of reference
Kevin> on how editcomponents.cgi changed or how to make the necessary
Kevin> changes.&nbsp; I&#8217;m also trying to figure out the changes
Kevin> in process_bug.cgi near lines 94 &#8211; 105 (2.17.4).&nbsp;
Kevin> Since we created our own assigned_todropdown field, my
Kevin> predecessor ended up using this area to insert his code to
Kevin> handle the dropdown.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

Kevin> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span
Kevin> style='font-size:10.0pt;
Kevin> font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

Kevin> <div>

Kevin> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span
Kevin> style='font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial'>Kevin
Kevin> Benton</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

Kevin> </div>

Kevin> <div>

Kevin> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span
Kevin> style='font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial'>Perl/Bugzilla
Kevin> Developer</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

Kevin> </div>

Kevin> <div>

Kevin> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span
Kevin> style='font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial'>Advanced Micro
Kevin> Devices</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

Kevin> </div>

Kevin> <div>

Kevin> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
Kevin> style='font-size: 12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></font></p>

Kevin> </div>

Kevin> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
Kevin> style='font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

Kevin> </div>

Kevin> </body>

Kevin> </html>


From bugzilla at chimpychompy.org  Wed Nov 17 09:27:04 2004
From: bugzilla at chimpychompy.org (GavinS)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 09:27:04 +0000
Subject: Goals for 2.22?
In-Reply-To: <1100655380.5084.48.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1100655380.5084.48.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <16795.6504.732887.653478@offsite.i418.iplbath.com>


I'm going to try and finish admin pages templatisation for 2.22.

 -Gavin

>>>>> "Max" == Max Kanat-Alexander <mkanat at kerio.com> writes:

Max> 	I'd like to have 2.22 be the "custom fields and cross-DB
Max> release."  Any other thoughts? I know that we're time-based, not
Max> feature-based, but I think it's still good to have some goals in
Max> mind.

Max> 	-Max


Max> - To view or change your list settings, click here:
Max> <http://bugzilla.org/cgi-bin/mj_wwwusr?user=bugzilla at chimpychompy.org>


From mkgnu at gmx.net  Wed Nov 17 15:56:29 2004
From: mkgnu at gmx.net (Kristis Makris)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 08:56:29 -0700
Subject: [ham] Goals for 2.22?
In-Reply-To: <1100655380.5084.48.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1100655380.5084.48.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <1100706947.1922.2.camel@syd.mkgnu.net>


I'd be interested in setting a target version for this bug:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=254400

I'm unsure if this is currently planned for 2.20, or 2.22, or at all.

> 	Any other thoughts? I know that we're time-based, not feature-based,
> but I think it's still good to have some goals in mind.




From kevin.benton at amd.com  Wed Nov 17 16:05:44 2004
From: kevin.benton at amd.com (Kevin Benton)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 09:05:44 -0700
Subject: [ham] Goals for 2.22?
In-Reply-To: <1100706947.1922.2.camel@syd.mkgnu.net>
Message-ID: <20041117160543.B27C560E5D@ldcmail.amd.com>

It seems this question begs a bigger one.  I wonder - is there a planned
feature roadmap published for Bugzilla?

-----Original Message-----
From: developers-owner at bugzilla.org [mailto:developers-owner at bugzilla.org]
On Behalf Of Kristis Makris
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 8:56 AM
To: developers at bugzilla.org
Subject: Re: [ham] Goals for 2.22?


I'd be interested in setting a target version for this bug:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=254400

I'm unsure if this is currently planned for 2.20, or 2.22, or at all.

> 	Any other thoughts? I know that we're time-based, not feature-based,
> but I think it's still good to have some goals in mind.


-
To view or change your list settings, click here:
<http://bugzilla.org/cgi-bin/mj_wwwusr?user=kevin.benton at amd.com>





From justdave at bugzilla.org  Wed Nov 17 18:18:29 2004
From: justdave at bugzilla.org (David Miller)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 13:18:29 -0500
Subject: [ham] Goals for 2.22?
In-Reply-To: <20041117160543.B27C560E5D@ldcmail.amd.com>
References: <20041117160543.B27C560E5D@ldcmail.amd.com>
Message-ID: <419B95F5.6040803@bugzilla.org>

Kevin Benton wrote:
> It seems this question begs a bigger one.  I wonder - is there a planned
> feature roadmap published for Bugzilla?

Yeah, the one on the website currently is WAY out of date.  Getting that 
(and a couple other pages) on the website updated is on my priorities 
this week.


-- 
Dave Miller      Project Leader, Bugzilla Bug Tracking System
http://www.justdave.net/             http://www.bugzilla.org/


From justdave at bugzilla.org  Wed Nov 17 18:37:43 2004
From: justdave at bugzilla.org (David Miller)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 13:37:43 -0500
Subject: [ham] Goals for 2.22?
In-Reply-To: <419B95F5.6040803@bugzilla.org>
References: <20041117160543.B27C560E5D@ldcmail.amd.com> <419B95F5.6040803@bugzilla.org>
Message-ID: <419B9A77.6040409@bugzilla.org>

David Miller wrote:
> Kevin Benton wrote:
> 
>> It seems this question begs a bigger one.  I wonder - is there a planned
>> feature roadmap published for Bugzilla?
> 
> Yeah, the one on the website currently is WAY out of date.  Getting that 
> (and a couple other pages) on the website updated is on my priorities 
> this week.

And community feedback on what should be there is of course welcome. 
But keep in mind that we are on time-based releases now, so it needs to 
realistically represent what we think we can accomplish between now and 
March 2005.

-- 
Dave Miller      Project Leader, Bugzilla Bug Tracking System
http://www.justdave.net/             http://www.bugzilla.org/


From akitchen at ecastinc.com  Wed Nov 17 18:59:28 2004
From: akitchen at ecastinc.com (Andrew Kitchen)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 10:59:28 -0800
Subject: bug 264868 - problem with emailregexp / emailsuffix in 2.18rc3
Message-ID: <1BD2BE5421950B44A7B6E18764EAB9A5019F2778@sf-mail1.corp.ecastinc.com>

Hello Everyone,

I recently upgraded a test installation of bugzilla from 2.18rc2 to
2.18rc3 on windows.  My 2.18rc2 system works great but we have wanted to
keep current with 2.18 to pick up fixes and enhancements that have come
through in the latest release candidate.

I set up an unmodified copy of 2.18rc3, ran checksetup.pl twice and made
some edits in my editparams.cgi, most notably, setting emailregexp to
^[^@]+$ and emailsuffix to @mydomain.com, and turning on qacontact.
This all worked fine for me in rc2, but in rc3 when I view a bug the
email suffixes are appended to qacontact in show_bug.cgi, and therefore
user matching fails and I cannot submit changes to a bug until I go back
and strip @mydomain.com from the usernames in Qacontact and assignee.
This makes certain state changes impossible (such as resolving the bug)
since the only way to change the assignee (or edit their email address)
is to reassign the bug (from 'me at mydomain.com' to 'me').  

A search of BMO turned up this bug
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=264868 
(Bug 264868 - show_bug.cgi should honour 'emailsuffix' in 'Reassign bug
to' field) which seems to describe the problem.  I voted for this bug
after mistakenly setting the blocking2.18 flag to '+'.  I reset the flag
to '?' but I would consider this to be a blocker as enabling these
features makes the system unusable.  I'll try to take a stab at testing
the proposed patch.

thanks, and kind regards,

-Andrew




From kevin.benton at amd.com  Wed Nov 17 19:16:52 2004
From: kevin.benton at amd.com (Kevin Benton)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 12:16:52 -0700
Subject: [ham] Goals for 2.22?
In-Reply-To: <419B9A77.6040409@bugzilla.org>
Message-ID: <20041117191649.2D7FD60E5F@ldcmail.amd.com>

What I do to help me plan overall decisions that aren't necessarily
time-based is to use a 7-habits method of priority setting.  It's a two-part
prioritization method that categorizes priorities based on urgency and
importance, then task sequence.

"A" tasks are those that I consider fires that are both urgent and
important.  Answering the phone can be an A task for a sales person.

"B" tasks are those I consider important but not urgent.  For me, planning
my day is a B task.

"C" tasks are urgent, but not very important.  Making it to the store before
closing may be urgent, but when the refrigerator is already full and I'm
using it as an excuse to put off something else, that makes it a C task.

"D" tasks are neither very urgent nor important.  Playing a game could be a
perfect example for someone who has already played enough.

Sample:

A1 - Take daughter to hospital.
A4 - Put gas in car before going home.
B1 - Spend time with wife
B2 - Plan tomorrow's events

Without having seen the roadmap, I would suggest to the community that we
classify issues utilizing this type of method first with an overall picture,
then by looking at the release time with a goal of having certain features /
fixes completed by then.  If this is already being done, great :)

On my plate at the moment is upgrading a number of installations from
various versions all to 2.19.1.  Once that's complete, then I can start
looking at helping with the development here. :)

Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: developers-owner at bugzilla.org [mailto:developers-owner at bugzilla.org]
On Behalf Of David Miller
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 11:38 AM
To: developers at bugzilla.org
Subject: Re: [ham] Goals for 2.22?

David Miller wrote:
> Kevin Benton wrote:
> 
>> It seems this question begs a bigger one.  I wonder - is there a planned
>> feature roadmap published for Bugzilla?
> 
> Yeah, the one on the website currently is WAY out of date.  Getting that 
> (and a couple other pages) on the website updated is on my priorities 
> this week.

And community feedback on what should be there is of course welcome. 
But keep in mind that we are on time-based releases now, so it needs to 
realistically represent what we think we can accomplish between now and 
March 2005.

-- 
Dave Miller      Project Leader, Bugzilla Bug Tracking System
http://www.justdave.net/             http://www.bugzilla.org/
-
To view or change your list settings, click here:
<http://bugzilla.org/cgi-bin/mj_wwwusr?user=kevin.benton at amd.com>





From justdave at bugzilla.org  Wed Nov 17 19:54:39 2004
From: justdave at bugzilla.org (David Miller)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 14:54:39 -0500
Subject: [ham] Goals for 2.22?
In-Reply-To: <20041117191649.2D7FD60E5F@ldcmail.amd.com>
References: <20041117191649.2D7FD60E5F@ldcmail.amd.com>
Message-ID: <419BAC7F.3030809@bugzilla.org>

Kevin Benton wrote:

> What I do to help me plan overall decisions that aren't necessarily
> time-based is to use a 7-habits method of priority setting.  It's a two-part
> prioritization method that categorizes priorities based on urgency and
> importance, then task sequence.

Bugzilla does provide ways to indicate this on the bugs, by way of the 
priority and severity fields.  And this is indeed a great way to 
prioritize the work, but as with many open source projects, getting 
people to work on the high priority bugs isn't always easy.  Very few 
people are paid to hack Bugzilla, and most folks will attack bugs that 
are easy to fix or that they have a personal interest in, and even 
though much of the community agrees that "issue A" is a really high 
priority, everyone avoids it like the plague because it's difficult to 
implement.

Some classic examples:  enforcing a character set (which in itself is 
easy, but upgrading an existing system is a very complex problem) and 
email address privacy.

That said, just because we have trouble getting people to work on the 
high-priority issues doesn't mean we should give up on it.  Perhaps we 
just need to change the tactics of how we solicit help for such things. 
  Perhaps a web page containing a list of high-priority bugs which are 
not getting enough attention, to let people know that just because we 
have a bug on the issue doesn't mean it's being worked on?

-- 
Dave Miller      Project Leader, Bugzilla Bug Tracking System
http://www.justdave.net/             http://www.bugzilla.org/


From suson at TuckerEnergy.com  Wed Nov 17 19:10:19 2004
From: suson at TuckerEnergy.com (Steven Suson)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 13:10:19 -0600
Subject: [ham] Goals for 2.22?
In-Reply-To: <419B9A77.6040409@bugzilla.org>
References: <20041117160543.B27C560E5D@ldcmail.amd.com> <419B95F5.6040803@bugzilla.org> <419B9A77.6040409@bugzilla.org>
Message-ID: <419BA21B.3010202@TuckerEnergy.com>

Custom fields definitely gets my vote.

Steven Suson

David Miller wrote:

> David Miller wrote:
>
>> Kevin Benton wrote:
>>
>>> It seems this question begs a bigger one.  I wonder - is there a 
>>> planned
>>> feature roadmap published for Bugzilla?
>>
>>
>> Yeah, the one on the website currently is WAY out of date.  Getting 
>> that (and a couple other pages) on the website updated is on my 
>> priorities this week.
>
>
> And community feedback on what should be there is of course welcome. 
> But keep in mind that we are on time-based releases now, so it needs 
> to realistically represent what we think we can accomplish between now 
> and March 2005.
>


From dwilliss at microimages.com  Wed Nov 17 20:43:59 2004
From: dwilliss at microimages.com (Dave Williss)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 14:43:59 -0600
Subject: How stable is 2.19.1?
Message-ID: <811e01c4cce6$2aa11280$6e00000a@opus>

We're converting our antiquated error database to Bugzilla and I was 
wondering how stable 2.19.1 is.  I've got everything running under 2.18rc3, 
but there's a feature in 2.19 that we REALLY want -- the ability to select 
users from a dropdown menu.

 -- Dave Williss
------
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons,
   for you are crunchy and taste good with catsup



From justdave at bugzilla.org  Wed Nov 17 20:50:57 2004
From: justdave at bugzilla.org (David Miller)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:50:57 -0500
Subject: How stable is 2.19.1?
In-Reply-To: <811e01c4cce6$2aa11280$6e00000a@opus>
References: <811e01c4cce6$2aa11280$6e00000a@opus>
Message-ID: <419BB9B1.6050101@bugzilla.org>

Dave Williss wrote:
> We're converting our antiquated error database to Bugzilla and I was 
> wondering how stable 2.19.1 is.  I've got everything running under 
> 2.18rc3, but there's a feature in 2.19 that we REALLY want -- the 
> ability to select users from a dropdown menu.

2.19.1 was released a couple weeks *after* the feature freeze for 2.20, 
and is thus quite stable.  It would have been called 2.20rc1 if 2.18 had 
actually released already.

-- 
Dave Miller      Project Leader, Bugzilla Bug Tracking System
http://www.justdave.net/             http://www.bugzilla.org/


From travis at SEDSystems.ca  Wed Nov 17 20:36:24 2004
From: travis at SEDSystems.ca (Shane H. W. Travis)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 14:36:24 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [ham] Goals for 2.22?
In-Reply-To: <419BAC7F.3030809@bugzilla.org>
References: <20041117191649.2D7FD60E5F@ldcmail.amd.com> <419BAC7F.3030809@bugzilla.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GHP.4.58.0411171410040.10367@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca>



On Wed, 17 Nov 2004, David Miller wrote:

> That said, just because we have trouble getting people to work on the
> high-priority issues doesn't mean we should give up on it.  Perhaps we
> just need to change the tactics of how we solicit help for such things.

IMHO, reviewing is a BIG issue. David Fallon wrote a week ago indicating
that he had a patch ready to apply, but nobody had looked at it. I've got
two 2.18 blockers that are ready to go... but again, no reviews. It's
quite possible that we're going about it in the wrong way, but other than
blindly setting 'r?' to the name of a complete stranger, there's not much
indication what the right way *is*.

The fact that the Bugzilla Reviewer's list is way out of date doesn't help
either; I'm trying to help with the grunt work of documentation (so don't
talk to me about taking things that nobody else wants to do! :) but the one
person who has been helping out immensely (Vlad) isn't on that list at all,
whereas the two people who are listed for documentation (Jacob and Barnboy)
haven't been active in at least a year.

Given that, I'm rather hesitant to set a code review to anyone on the list
other than Dave (for the blockers) because I have no idea who is and is not
still active in the community... so I either ask the air for a review
(which, apparently, is incredibly ineffective), or I spam the entire review
list with "r?" and hope someone still active catches it. Neither one is
really very satisfying.


Vlad's timely reviews of my documentation patches have played a SIGNIFICANT
part in getting me to do *more* documentation patches. As someone who is
still new to the process, I can tell you this: there's nothing more
disheartening than watching a patch sit (and possibly rot) without anyone
even acknowledging that it's there. Nobody likes to be ignored, especially
when one is trying to help. Being ignored basically sends the message that
nobody WANTS your help... and (correct me if I'm wrong) I don't think that's
the stance of the Bugzilla development team, is it? Because intentional or
not, it's the message that is often being sent to new contributors...


I know reviewing patches is not nearly as 'fun' as writing your own. Without
reviewers, though, people leave for lack of encouragement (or even
acknowledgement) and guidance. When that happens, no new blood comes onto
the project, and eventually everyone who is left on it burns out and it
dies.  I've seen it before -- not on things like Bugzilla (as this is my
first experience in this field), but in other volunteer organizations of
which I've been a part.


Lest anyone think I'm merely criticizing, I've already put my money where my
mouth is, and made an offer to Dave to review documentation patches. I'm not
well-known enough here to do code reviews, nor (honestly) would I feel
comfortable with it... but dagnabbit I know I can write, I'm anal about
spacing and punctiation, and I'm working on this SGML stuff. :)


Shane H.W. Travis       | Anyone who is capable of getting themselves
travis at sedsystems.ca    |  made President should on no account be allowed
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan |  to do the job.  -- Douglas Adams, HHGTTG



From andyster at gmail.com  Wed Nov 17 22:56:52 2004
From: andyster at gmail.com (Andy Smith)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 14:56:52 -0800
Subject: Bugzilla+SXIP, pending release
Message-ID: <5419014104111714562cfc308c@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks to a few modifications to the auth system in Bugzilla 2.19.1, I
have been able to rewrite the SXIP authentication support for Bugzilla
much more cleanly.

For the people who don't know what SXIP is, it is a single sign-on
platform, open source with xmlsec signed data assertions. More info at
https://sxip.org and accounts can be gotten at demohomesite.com.
Current implementations include Mailman, Drupal, Plone, PEAR::Auth,
and quite a few others are in the works.

So, I've added support to Bugzilla, demo at http://bugs.an9.org, code
at http://an9.org/data/sxip-bugzilla-0.8.tar.gz, or browse the svn at
http://an9.org/p/browser/bugzilla_sxip

Excerpt from the README (because writing documentation is slow):

This is a preliminary version of SXIP integration for Bugzilla.
Note: While it is possible to use the Simple MDK, it is *not* recommended
      as the Simple MDK is intended for non-secure operation only.

    Great efforts were made (per request of the development community) during
the writing of these modules to modify as little of the Bugzilla code as
possible, and to that extent it is possible to use the authentication without
changing anything except for defparams.pl, however, for the most complete
integration one will have to make modifications to a few templates, and,
unfortunately, one of the cgi scripts.
    With any luck, these modifications will become less and less necessary
as Bugzilla develops the ability to handle more and more external resources.
Until then, this is a fully functional implementation of a SXIP Membersite.

    Information about SXIP can be found at https://sxip.org, but the brief
overview is that SXIP is an protocol for exchanging identity information, in
this case being used as an authentication system.
    For Bugzilla, this means that the very first time a SXIP user arrives at
the site, he or she will be able to log in without first registering
individually with your site (a new account will be created, respecting the
account creation regex). Because one of the requestable properties in SXIP
is a verified email address, you are also allowed to log in to an already
existing account should your verified email address match the email address
of an existing user.

Install directions are included in INSTALL, installation will not
break any Bugzilla functionality, once everything has been copied
over, you still need to flip the switch in Parameters to turn it on.

This will be up on https://sxip.org soon, and will be announced there
as well, it would be great to say we have the support of the Bugzilla
community and I would love to work with you on fixing any issues that
cause chafe involved with this add-on, as well as developing further
support to ease the integration of these kinds of modules.

Comments and criticisms welcome, I'm 'termie' on the IRC channel and
I'll likely be there all the time.

- andy smith
army of coding monkeys
sxip networks
vancouver, bc


From mkanat at kerio.com  Wed Nov 17 23:25:47 2004
From: mkanat at kerio.com (Max Kanat-Alexander)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:25:47 -0800
Subject: [ham] Goals for 2.22?
In-Reply-To: <419BAC7F.3030809@bugzilla.org>
References: <20041117191649.2D7FD60E5F@ldcmail.amd.com>
	 <419BAC7F.3030809@bugzilla.org>
Message-ID: <1100733948.5557.6.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Wed, 2004-11-17 at 14:54 -0500, David Miller wrote:
>   Perhaps a web page containing a list of high-priority bugs which are 
> not getting enough attention, to let people know that just because we 
> have a bug on the issue doesn't mean it's being worked on?

	I think that's a good idea. Maybe a link called "Where can I help out?"
or "How can I help out?"

	-Max




From andyster at gmail.com  Thu Nov 18 01:32:04 2004
From: andyster at gmail.com (Andy Smith)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:32:04 -0800
Subject: Bugzilla+SXIP, pending release
In-Reply-To: <5419014104111714562cfc308c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5419014104111714562cfc308c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54190141041117173242fd8447@mail.gmail.com>

Hmm, CSS appears thoroughly broken on IE, I'll have to fix when I get
to a PC later tonight.


From Tomas.Kopal at altap.cz  Thu Nov 18 08:45:28 2004
From: Tomas.Kopal at altap.cz (Tomas Kopal)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 19:15:28 +1030
Subject: [ham] Goals for 2.22?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GHP.4.58.0411171410040.10367@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca>
References: <20041117191649.2D7FD60E5F@ldcmail.amd.com> <419BAC7F.3030809@bugzilla.org> <Pine.GHP.4.58.0411171410040.10367@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca>
Message-ID: <419C6128.4000805@altap.cz>

Completely concur to this post, could not put it better myself. IMHO the 
problem of Bugzilla is not to get enough developers to get something 
done, but to keep them around. And timely reviews (or at least some 
reaction, any feedback is better than nothing) are the best way how to 
keep people interested. And if you keep them interested long enough, 
they will become experienced and can start reviewing too...

I have just short experience with submitting patches, but getting 
reviews, getting feedback, getting some satisfaction and sense of 
progress is the biggest problem IMHO.

Cheers

Tomas

Shane H. W. Travis wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 17 Nov 2004, David Miller wrote:
> 
> 
>>That said, just because we have trouble getting people to work on the
>>high-priority issues doesn't mean we should give up on it.  Perhaps we
>>just need to change the tactics of how we solicit help for such things.
> 
> 
> IMHO, reviewing is a BIG issue. David Fallon wrote a week ago indicating
> that he had a patch ready to apply, but nobody had looked at it. I've got
> two 2.18 blockers that are ready to go... but again, no reviews. It's
> quite possible that we're going about it in the wrong way, but other than
> blindly setting 'r?' to the name of a complete stranger, there's not much
> indication what the right way *is*.
> 
> The fact that the Bugzilla Reviewer's list is way out of date doesn't help
> either; I'm trying to help with the grunt work of documentation (so don't
> talk to me about taking things that nobody else wants to do! :) but the one
> person who has been helping out immensely (Vlad) isn't on that list at all,
> whereas the two people who are listed for documentation (Jacob and Barnboy)
> haven't been active in at least a year.
> 
> Given that, I'm rather hesitant to set a code review to anyone on the list
> other than Dave (for the blockers) because I have no idea who is and is not
> still active in the community... so I either ask the air for a review
> (which, apparently, is incredibly ineffective), or I spam the entire review
> list with "r?" and hope someone still active catches it. Neither one is
> really very satisfying.
> 
> 
> Vlad's timely reviews of my documentation patches have played a SIGNIFICANT
> part in getting me to do *more* documentation patches. As someone who is
> still new to the process, I can tell you this: there's nothing more
> disheartening than watching a patch sit (and possibly rot) without anyone
> even acknowledging that it's there. Nobody likes to be ignored, especially
> when one is trying to help. Being ignored basically sends the message that
> nobody WANTS your help... and (correct me if I'm wrong) I don't think that's
> the stance of the Bugzilla development team, is it? Because intentional or
> not, it's the message that is often being sent to new contributors...
> 
> 
> I know reviewing patches is not nearly as 'fun' as writing your own. Without
> reviewers, though, people leave for lack of encouragement (or even
> acknowledgement) and guidance. When that happens, no new blood comes onto
> the project, and eventually everyone who is left on it burns out and it
> dies.  I've seen it before -- not on things like Bugzilla (as this is my
> first experience in this field), but in other volunteer organizations of
> which I've been a part.
> 
> 
> Lest anyone think I'm merely criticizing, I've already put my money where my
> mouth is, and made an offer to Dave to review documentation patches. I'm not
> well-known enough here to do code reviews, nor (honestly) would I feel
> comfortable with it... but dagnabbit I know I can write, I'm anal about
> spacing and punctiation, and I'm working on this SGML stuff. :)
> 
> 
> Shane H.W. Travis       | Anyone who is capable of getting themselves
> travis at sedsystems.ca    |  made President should on no account be allowed
> Saskatoon, Saskatchewan |  to do the job.  -- Douglas Adams, HHGTTG
> 
> -
> To view or change your list settings, click here:
> <http://bugzilla.org/cgi-bin/mj_wwwusr?user=Tomas.Kopal at altap.cz>
> 


From andreas.hoefler at bearingpoint.com  Thu Nov 18 11:20:33 2004
From: andreas.hoefler at bearingpoint.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andreas_H=F6fler?=)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 12:20:33 +0100
Subject: Possibility to give Users rights to only edit and change components
 of special products
Message-ID: <419C8581.4050706@bearingpoint.com>


Hi,

is it possible that I give a user the right to change only the 
components of the
product he is the maintainer of?

Or can someone who is in the editcomponents group change all 
products/components
in the system?


Thanks,
 Andreas

-- 
Reclaim Your Inbox!
http://www.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird


***************************************************************************************************
The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged.  Access to this email by anyone other than the intended addressee is unauthorized.  If you are not the intended recipient of this message, any review, disclosure, copying, distribution, retention, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it is prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you are not the intended recipient, please reply to or forward a copy of this message to the sender and delete the message, any attachments, and any copies thereof from your system.
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From luis.villa at gmail.com  Thu Nov 18 14:16:05 2004
From: luis.villa at gmail.com (Luis Villa)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 09:16:05 -0500
Subject: Possibility to give Users rights to only edit and change components of special products
In-Reply-To: <419C8581.4050706@bearingpoint.com>
References: <419C8581.4050706@bearingpoint.com>
Message-ID: <2cb10c4404111806166ba3391b@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 12:20:33 +0100, Andreas H?fler
<andreas.hoefler at bearingpoint.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> is it possible that I give a user the right to change only the
> components of the
> product he is the maintainer of?

Not that I know of. We (gnome) could certainly use the notion of
per-product maintainership, but it's not really there in the code at
this point.

Luis
 
> Or can someone who is in the editcomponents group change all
> products/components
> in the system?
> 
> Thanks,
>  Andreas
> 
> --
> Reclaim Your Inbox!
> http://www.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird
> 
> ***************************************************************************************************
> The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged.  Access to this email by anyone other than the intended addressee is unauthorized.  If you are not the intended recipient of this message, any review, disclosure, copying, distribution, retention, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it is prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you are not the intended recipient, please reply to or forward a copy of this message to the sender and delete the message, any attachments, and any copies thereof from your system.
> ***************************************************************************************************
> -
> To view or change your list settings, click here:
> <http://bugzilla.org/cgi-bin/mj_wwwusr?user=luis.villa at gmail.com>
>



From dwilliss at microimages.com  Thu Nov 18 14:52:39 2004
From: dwilliss at microimages.com (Dave Williss)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 08:52:39 -0600
Subject: Feature Request: More customizable terms
Message-ID: <8ad801c4cd7e$40111050$6e00000a@opus>

I'd like to be able to customize more of the terms shown in Bugzilla.
Specifically, we'd like to be able to have "enhancement" show up as NFR (New 
Feature Request) without changing how it's actually stored and having to 
change every place where it's referenced in the CGI scripts.  The term NFR, 
besides being what our staff is used to calling them, fits better on the bug 
lists.

I like how you can customize the term "bug" by editing one template file. 
If we could just put more terms there and have the templates use them, that 
would be great.  Especially the enums from the database.

Note, I'm using 2.18rc3.  Maybe this has already been done in 2.19.1?  I 
read that more is being templatized, so maybe my wish has already been 
granted.

 -- Dave Williss
------
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons,
   for you are crunchy and taste good with catsup



From bugreport at peshkin.net  Thu Nov 18 14:58:16 2004
From: bugreport at peshkin.net (Joel Peshkin)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 06:58:16 -0800
Subject: Feature Request: More customizable terms
In-Reply-To: <8ad801c4cd7e$40111050$6e00000a@opus>
References: <8ad801c4cd7e$40111050$6e00000a@opus>
Message-ID: <419CB888.8090406@peshkin.net>

Dave Williss wrote:

> I'd like to be able to customize more of the terms shown in Bugzilla.
> Specifically, we'd like to be able to have "enhancement" show up as 
> NFR (New Feature Request) without changing how it's actually stored 
> and having to change every place where it's referenced in the CGI 
> scripts.  The term NFR, besides being what our staff is used to 
> calling them, fits better on the bug lists.

All you have to do is edit localconfig and rerun checksetup.



From andreas.hoefler at bearingpoint.com  Thu Nov 18 15:20:25 2004
From: andreas.hoefler at bearingpoint.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andreas_H=F6fler?=)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 16:20:25 +0100
Subject: Feature Request: More customizable terms
In-Reply-To: <419CB888.8090406@peshkin.net>
References: <8ad801c4cd7e$40111050$6e00000a@opus> 
	<419CB888.8090406@peshkin.net>
Message-ID: <419CBDB9.1030500@bearingpoint.com>

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From kiko at async.com.br  Thu Nov 18 15:21:20 2004
From: kiko at async.com.br (Christian Robottom Reis)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:21:20 -0200
Subject: Standard reports
In-Reply-To: <D251C7BB8F0AFB46B5F11FFDB26CA6EF0139A0F7@mailman.bos.vfa>
References: <D251C7BB8F0AFB46B5F11FFDB26CA6EF0139A0F7@mailman.bos.vfa>
Message-ID: <20041118152120.GH4804@async.com.br>

On Wed, Nov 10, 2004 at 01:44:35PM -0500, Cunningham, Tom wrote:
> I'm not sure whether that was the question.   The question was whether
> there was a way to create generic reports that get applied to whatever
> the "current product" is, just like the 'My Bugs' query is applied to
> whomever the current user is.

If you mean "one-click" reports, no, but it is of course possible to
generate product-specific reports using Bugzilla's charting feature.

Take care,
--
Christian Robottom Reis | http://async.com.br/~kiko/ | [+55 16] 3361 2331


From kiko at async.com.br  Thu Nov 18 15:22:08 2004
From: kiko at async.com.br (Christian Robottom Reis)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:22:08 -0200
Subject: Standard reports
In-Reply-To: <419253C0.8060108@asyn.com>
References: <419253C0.8060108@asyn.com>
Message-ID: <20041118152208.GI4804@async.com.br>

On Wed, Nov 10, 2004 at 09:45:36AM -0800, Stuart Donaldson wrote:
> I know I can set up bookmarks for these, but I run upwards of 30-40 
> products, and more coming on line all the time, so having to do this 
> specifically for each product is a big pain. 

I suggest you change the editproducts output and add a few links that
would generate reports on the fly using the currently selected product
name. It stands as a good suggestion, still.

Take care,
--
Christian Robottom Reis | http://async.com.br/~kiko/ | [+55 16] 3361 2331


From kiko at async.com.br  Thu Nov 18 15:28:19 2004
From: kiko at async.com.br (Christian Robottom Reis)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:28:19 -0200
Subject: Feature Request: More customizable terms
In-Reply-To: <419CBDB9.1030500@bearingpoint.com>
References: <8ad801c4cd7e$40111050$6e00000a@opus> <419CB888.8090406@peshkin.net> <419CBDB9.1030500@bearingpoint.com>
Message-ID: <20041118152819.GJ4804@async.com.br>

On Thu, Nov 18, 2004 at 04:20:25PM +0100, Andreas H?fler wrote:
>    At our location such wishes had the effect that we renamed
>    Product -> Team
>    Component -> Component
>    Version -> Project
>    Milestone -> Iteration
>    Severity -> Task Type
>    Platform -> PM Type
>    OS -> Dev Type
> 
>    Since these are terms which are hardcoded almost anywhere, we had quite
>    a lot to change in almost any file.
> 
>    Customisation of such definitions in a central place would have helped us
>    enourmosly.

Feel free to submit patches; following the terms.Bugzilla example should
prove quite trivial. I suspect it could be done by some sed(1)dage followed
by a visual patch overview and correction.

Take care,
--
Christian Robottom Reis | http://async.com.br/~kiko/ | [+55 16] 3361 2331


From dwilliss at microimages.com  Thu Nov 18 16:28:14 2004
From: dwilliss at microimages.com (Dave Williss)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:28:14 -0600
Subject: Feature Request: Use groups to limit user selection dropdown lists
Message-ID: <8b2f01c4cd8b$a240f210$6e00000a@opus>

We just updated to 2.19.1 and LOVE the dropdown lists for selecting users.
However, we'd like to request for a future version that you be able to limit 
each list to only show users in a given group.  For example, we only want 
the QA Contact list to show users in the QA department, Assigned To should 
only show actual programmers, CC list can show anybody, etc...


 -- Dave Williss
------
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons,
   for you are crunchy and taste good with catsup



From travis at SEDSystems.ca  Thu Nov 18 16:31:22 2004
From: travis at SEDSystems.ca (Shane H. W. Travis)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:31:22 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Feature Request: More customizable terms
In-Reply-To: <20041118152819.GJ4804@async.com.br>
References: <8ad801c4cd7e$40111050$6e00000a@opus> <419CB888.8090406@peshkin.net>
 <419CBDB9.1030500@bearingpoint.com> <20041118152819.GJ4804@async.com.br>
Message-ID: <Pine.GHP.4.58.0411181014480.11437@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca>



On Thu, 18 Nov 2004, Christian Robottom Reis wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 18, 2004 at 04:20:25PM +0100, Andreas H?fler wrote:
> >    At our location such wishes had the effect that we renamed
> >    Product -> Team
> >    Component -> Component
> >    Version -> Project
> >    Milestone -> Iteration
> >    Severity -> Task Type
> >    Platform -> PM Type
> >    OS -> Dev Type
> >
>
> Feel free to submit patches; following the terms.Bugzilla example should
> prove quite trivial.

I'm surprised to hear you suggesting this, Christian, given your previously
elucidated comments on bug 218746 (Terms "Product" and "Component" should be
templatized).

In that case, Marc Schumann did *exactly* what you're suggesting; he did the
work, and made a patch to put Product and Component into terms. Result? You,
gerv, and Joel smacked him down, gave him an r- on his patch, ignored the
updated patch that addressed the (valid) concerns, and marked the whole
thing RESOLVED WONTFIX.

Given that the expressly held attitude (of Those Who Can Deny Patches,
anyway) on the templatization of any term other than 'bug' seems to be
'this far, and no further'... why would you suggest to anyone that they
submit a patch when it's (extremely) likely that they're going to run
into exactly the same response?

Shane H.W. Travis       | Anyone who is capable of getting themselves
travis at sedsystems.ca    |  made President should on no account be allowed
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan |  to do the job.  -- Douglas Adams, HHGTTG




From kiko at async.com.br  Thu Nov 18 16:59:51 2004
From: kiko at async.com.br (Christian Robottom Reis)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 14:59:51 -0200
Subject: Feature Request: More customizable terms
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GHP.4.58.0411181014480.11437@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca>
References: <8ad801c4cd7e$40111050$6e00000a@opus> <419CB888.8090406@peshkin.net> <419CBDB9.1030500@bearingpoint.com> <20041118152819.GJ4804@async.com.br> <Pine.GHP.4.58.0411181014480.11437@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca>
Message-ID: <20041118165951.GO4804@async.com.br>

On Thu, Nov 18, 2004 at 10:31:22AM -0600, Shane H. W. Travis wrote:
> > On Thu, Nov 18, 2004 at 04:20:25PM +0100, Andreas H?fler wrote:
> > >    At our location such wishes had the effect that we renamed
> > >    Product -> Team
> > >    Component -> Component
> > >    Version -> Project
> > >    Milestone -> Iteration
> > >    Severity -> Task Type
> > >    Platform -> PM Type
> > >    OS -> Dev Type
> > >
> >
> > Feel free to submit patches; following the terms.Bugzilla example should
> > prove quite trivial.
> 
> I'm surprised to hear you suggesting this, Christian, given your previously
> elucidated comments on bug 218746 (Terms "Product" and "Component" should be
> templatized).

That wasn't me. It was my evil alter ego. He denies patches in the wee
hours when nobody is awake to complain about them.

> In that case, Marc Schumann did *exactly* what you're suggesting; he did the
> work, and made a patch to put Product and Component into terms. Result? You,
> gerv, and Joel smacked him down, gave him an r- on his patch, ignored the
> updated patch that addressed the (valid) concerns, and marked the whole
> thing RESOLVED WONTFIX.

Seriously, here, the above email was sent off a bit off-handedly; I
could have said it's something that might not be accepted in the core. I
can remember participating in the discussion, and at the time I
concurred it was a slippery slope (and isn't it? Have you tried
maintaining templates where all phrases are put together dynamically
from bits in terms?). I am open to changing my mind if enough people and
rationale is provided to justify this. 

It's a bit unfair to suggest a patch of that magnitude however given the
potential it has for bitrot; I apologize for it.

> Given that the expressly held attitude (of Those Who Can Deny Patches,
> anyway) on the templatization of any term other than 'bug' seems to be
> 'this far, and no further'... 

Why do I get the feeling you think I'm Not On Your Side? 

(Maybe it's because I didn't answer your long email you sent a few moons
ago. I've been meaning to; it's not that, I just suck at processing my INBOX.)

Take care,
--
Christian Robottom Reis | http://async.com.br/~kiko/ | [+55 16] 3361 2331


From chicks at chicks.net  Thu Nov 18 17:32:00 2004
From: chicks at chicks.net (Christopher Hicks)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 12:32:00 -0500 (EST)
Subject: my wish list for the next release
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0411181220380.17202@skippy.fini.net>

(1) The completion of the CSSification.  I'd love for the wikipedia look 
and feel to be an available skin.  My wife and business partner is very 
interested in doing a bugzilla skin to fit our new look and feel.

(2) The PerlOO bug interface filled out and documented.  This may already 
have happened to some degree, but I haven't looked lately.  (Is this still 
progressing?)

(3) All database tables to have primary keys.  The lack of this is really 
laughable and sad.  I've been slack on submitting patches because of lack 
of time and the accumulated frustrations of explaining simple database 
concepts to people that "should know", but since there's a break this 
weekend between the end of the World of Warcraft (WoW) beta and the 
release next week I'm trying to clean up my list of little tasks.** Now 
that I've publicly committed to this it'll provide me a bit more 
motivation to get over the hump of frustration.

(4) Time tracking.  The last time I looked at the patch it seemed like a 
work still in progress, but that was months ago.

-- 
</chris>

"Fans of Mozilla's free, open-source Firefox browser make the
ardent Apple faithful look like a bunch of slackers."
- Rebecca Lieb at clickz.com

** WoW is going to be the biggest MMORPG ever.  It totally smokes every 
other MMORPG we've ever played.  500,000 people signed up just for the 
beta.  I've played extensively Anarchy Online, Star Wars Galaxies, and 
Final Fantasy XI.  I've seen Eve Online, City of Heroes, Dark Ages of 
Camelot and a few less memorable massively multiplayer games being played. 
All had major frustrations, but WoW seems well thought out and well 
implemented.  If you sign up, drop me a note and I'll let you know what 
server we're on.  There's no list of the release servers yet so we haven't 
picked one yet.


From travis at SEDSystems.ca  Thu Nov 18 17:24:25 2004
From: travis at SEDSystems.ca (Shane H. W. Travis)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 11:24:25 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Feature Request: More customizable terms
In-Reply-To: <20041118165951.GO4804@async.com.br>
References: <8ad801c4cd7e$40111050$6e00000a@opus> <419CB888.8090406@peshkin.net>
 <419CBDB9.1030500@bearingpoint.com> <20041118152819.GJ4804@async.com.br>
 <Pine.GHP.4.58.0411181014480.11437@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca>
 <20041118165951.GO4804@async.com.br>
Message-ID: <Pine.GHP.4.58.0411181051340.11437@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca>



On Thu, 18 Nov 2004, Christian Robottom Reis wrote:

> I can remember participating in the discussion, and at the time I
> concurred it was a slippery slope (and isn't it? Have you tried
> maintaining templates where all phrases are put together dynamically from
> bits in terms?). I am open to changing my mind if enough people and
> rationale is provided to justify this.

I won't argue *at all* that there are inherent difficulties in this process,
and that it could lead to problems. For this reason, it should be done well,
and carefully, and with careful review. And maybe you're right, and it
shouldn't be done at all... but then why was it done with 'bug'? The
slippery slope started there, not here. Given that it's been done once, it
seems reasonable (to an outsider, anyway) that it can be done again.


> It's a bit unfair to suggest a patch of that magnitude however given the
> potential it has for bitrot; I apologize for it.

That's reasonable; thank you.


(The rest of this is directed 'to the air', and not at kiko specifically.)

When Someone In Charge makes a casual suggestion 'Make a patch; it should be
easy," then that's almost implicit permission/suggestion to do so. Maybe
some don't perceive it that way, but that's how people who are not part of
the 'inner circle' see it -- sort of like being pre-approved.

If he had actually gone and done all this work, and then faced the exact
same chain of comments as in 218746 (probably even shorter, because someone
would just stamp it 'Dupe of 218746' and close it), then how would that
feel? Like a slap in the face -- an outright rejection. After an experience
like that, why would he ever want to contribute again?

It ties in with my 'rant' yesterday about fostering new developers. New
developers come in and they're excited. They want to contribute, they want
to help, they want to be part of this great, wonderful, free thing. That
sort of spirit should be built up and encouraged, because only new
developers can ever become old developers. Telling someone to go make a
patch when all previous experience suggests that patches like this get
rejected... that's almost like doing the exact opposite, and that's why it
bothered me.

Enthusiasm is an ember; by itself, it won't do much, but with a little
nurturing and a little fuel, it will grow into a fire that is completely
capable of sustaining itself. That fuel needs to be added when the ember is
hot, though; leave it too long and the spark will have gone out. At that
point, no amount of fanning will revive it.

Yeah, analogies suck, but they work as far as they go; when a contributor is
flush with that initial burst of enthusiasm, THAT is when they need to get
some feedback... not when the INBOX is less full, or the current workload
eases off a bit, or as soon as this push is over. By then, it may be too
late, and the person may have already decided to move on to other things --
things where they are more assured that their help is wanted.

Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to fan my embers -- Vlad, Dave,
Max, C Hicks, Gavin.


> Why do I get the feeling you think I'm Not On Your Side?
>
> (Maybe it's because I didn't answer your long email you sent a few moons
> ago. I've been meaning to; it's not that, I just suck at processing my
> INBOX.)

lol - you infer that I'm carrying a grudge because you never answered my
mail? Let me assuage your conscience; that is not it at all.

Honestly, I had forgotten that I wrote to you. I remember now, and in truth
I remember being disappointed that you didn't reply -- the above 'ember
analogy' applies to me too. (You weren't the only one who didn't reply to a
similar e-mail, btw.) I'm past that stage now, though, and hold no grudges.

I'd still love to get an answer, when you have time, and would love to hear
your thoughts (private or public) on the issues raised here. I do appreciate
you accepting responsibility for your own words, and for acknowledging the
dichotomy between what you said there and what you said here. A lot of
people aren't able to do that, so it's nice to meet those who are.

Shane H.W. Travis       | Anyone who is capable of getting themselves
travis at sedsystems.ca    |  made President should on no account be allowed
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan |  to do the job.  -- Douglas Adams, HHGTTG


From chicks at chicks.net  Thu Nov 18 17:53:36 2004
From: chicks at chicks.net (Christopher Hicks)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 12:53:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Feature Request: More customizable terms
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GHP.4.58.0411181051340.11437@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca>
References: <8ad801c4cd7e$40111050$6e00000a@opus> <419CB888.8090406@peshkin.net>
 <419CBDB9.1030500@bearingpoint.com> <20041118152819.GJ4804@async.com.br>
 <Pine.GHP.4.58.0411181014480.11437@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca>
 <20041118165951.GO4804@async.com.br> <Pine.GHP.4.58.0411181051340.11437@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0411181246410.17202@skippy.fini.net>

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004, Shane H. W. Travis wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Nov 2004, Christian Robottom Reis wrote:
>> I can remember participating in the discussion, and at the time I
>> concurred it was a slippery slope (and isn't it? Have you tried
>> maintaining templates where all phrases are put together dynamically from
>> bits in terms?). I am open to changing my mind if enough people and
>> rationale is provided to justify this.
>
> I won't argue *at all* that there are inherent difficulties in this process,
> and that it could lead to problems. For this reason, it should be done well,
> and carefully, and with careful review. And maybe you're right, and it
> shouldn't be done at all... but then why was it done with 'bug'? The
> slippery slope started there, not here. Given that it's been done once, it
> seems reasonable (to an outsider, anyway) that it can be done again.

There are a variety of solutions for what I call "string externalization". 
Its totally necessary for any software that expect to be 
internationalized.  It makes the code a bit more verbose, but usually the 
token that replaces a given string can include a comment which explains 
what that terms is by default or what it means or whatever.  Tools for 
automatically doing a conversion into a string externalized format are 
available for a variety of languages and since we all know Perl are the 
sort of thing that can be whipped out with our eyes closed.

> When Someone In Charge makes a casual suggestion 'Make a patch; it 
> should be easy," then that's almost implicit permission/suggestion to do 
> so. Maybe some don't perceive it that way, but that's how people who are 
> not part of the 'inner circle' see it -- sort of like being 
> pre-approved.

And Kiko isn't the only person who's ever done this in the bugzilla 
context.  Dave told me ages ago to make a patch for task management. 
Subsequent indications were that this wasn't what several other folks 
wanted to see go into bugzilla.  A coherent vision for bugzilla seems to 
be severely lacking and so it causes lots of conversations that would be 
unnecessary if we could point to a vision statement and say "this is part 
of getting to where we want to be" or "that's not part of getting to where 
we want to be".  I'd be willing to wait a few months on the next release 
if we could say "this is where bugzilla is going to get eventually".

-- 
</chris>

"Fans of Mozilla's free, open-source Firefox browser make the
ardent Apple faithful look like a bunch of slackers."
- Rebecca Lieb at clickz.com


From bugreport at peshkin.net  Thu Nov 18 18:17:26 2004
From: bugreport at peshkin.net (Joel Peshkin)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:17:26 -0800
Subject: Goals for 2.22
Message-ID: <419CE736.5080000@peshkin.net>


I'd nominate ...

Remove ENUMs
and
Fix Search.pm so all the stuff that should work actually does work




From chicks at chicks.net  Thu Nov 18 18:22:06 2004
From: chicks at chicks.net (Christopher Hicks)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:22:06 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Goals for 2.22
In-Reply-To: <419CE736.5080000@peshkin.net>
References: <419CE736.5080000@peshkin.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0411181321260.17202@skippy.fini.net>

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004, Joel Peshkin wrote:
> Remove ENUMs

enums in a database are a big evil.

> Fix Search.pm so all the stuff that should work actually does work

What do you mean?

-- 
</chris>

"Fans of Mozilla's free, open-source Firefox browser make the
ardent Apple faithful look like a bunch of slackers."
- Rebecca Lieb at clickz.com


From bugreport at peshkin.net  Thu Nov 18 18:35:00 2004
From: bugreport at peshkin.net (Joel Peshkin)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:35:00 -0800
Subject: Goals for 2.22
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0411181321260.17202@skippy.fini.net>
References: <419CE736.5080000@peshkin.net> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0411181321260.17202@skippy.fini.net>
Message-ID: <419CEB54.7000402@peshkin.net>

Christopher Hicks wrote:

> On Thu, 18 Nov 2004, Joel Peshkin wrote:
>
>> Remove ENUMs
>
>
> enums in a database are a big evil.
>
>> Fix Search.pm so all the stuff that should work actually does work
>
>
> What do you mean?
>
Bug 252564 and its blocker 252889, for starters.




From timeless at myrealbox.com  Thu Nov 18 18:51:33 2004
From: timeless at myrealbox.com (timeless)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:51:33 -0800
Subject: Possibility to give Users rights to only edit and change components
In-Reply-To: <419C8581.4050706@bearingpoint.com>
References: <419C8581.4050706@bearingpoint.com>
Message-ID: <419CEF35.5000702@myrealbox.com>

Andreas H?fler wrote:
> is it possible that I give a user the right to change only the 
> components of the
> product he is the maintainer of?

unfortunately not yet.

> Or can someone who is in the editcomponents group change all 
> products/components
> in the system?

right.

note that fixing this is non trivial, one would need to add a lot of stuff.


From andyster at gmail.com  Thu Nov 18 20:24:30 2004
From: andyster at gmail.com (Andy Smith)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 12:24:30 -0800
Subject: Bugzilla+SXIP, pending release
In-Reply-To: <54190141041117173242fd8447@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5419014104111714562cfc308c@mail.gmail.com>
	 <54190141041117173242fd8447@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5419014104111812245aa4dfe5@mail.gmail.com>

CSS fixed, new file at http://an9.org/data/sxip-bugzilla-0.8.1.tar.gz


On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:32:04 -0800, Andy Smith <andyster at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hmm, CSS appears thoroughly broken on IE, I'll have to fix when I get
> to a PC later tonight.
>


From kiko at async.com.br  Thu Nov 18 22:14:50 2004
From: kiko at async.com.br (Christian Robottom Reis)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 20:14:50 -0200
Subject: my wish list for the next release
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0411181220380.17202@skippy.fini.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0411181220380.17202@skippy.fini.net>
Message-ID: <20041118221450.GH9416@async.com.br>

On Thu, Nov 18, 2004 at 12:32:00PM -0500, Christopher Hicks wrote:
> (4) Time tracking.  The last time I looked at the patch it seemed like a 
> work still in progress, but that was months ago.

Hey, time tracking works. It's the report that is halted on my lame-ass
patches.

Take care,
--
Christian Robottom Reis | http://async.com.br/~kiko/ | [+55 16] 3361 2331


From kevin.benton at amd.com  Thu Nov 18 22:25:56 2004
From: kevin.benton at amd.com (Kevin Benton)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 15:25:56 -0700
Subject: Crystal Reports & Bugzilla
Message-ID: <20041118222556.1AE5260E5D@ldcmail.amd.com>

Has anyone here gotten CR to work with BZ?  If so, do you have any tips on
getting them hooked up together?

 

Kevin Benton

Perl/Bugzilla Developer

Advanced Micro Devices

 

 

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From bugreport at peshkin.net  Thu Nov 18 22:39:28 2004
From: bugreport at peshkin.net (Joel Peshkin)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 14:39:28 -0800
Subject: Crystal Reports & Bugzilla
In-Reply-To: <20041118222556.1AE5260E5D@ldcmail.amd.com>
References: <20041118222556.1AE5260E5D@ldcmail.amd.com>
Message-ID: <419D24A0.2090202@peshkin.net>

Kevin Benton wrote:

> Has anyone here gotten CR to work with BZ?  If so, do you have any 
> tips on getting them hooked up together?
>
>  
>
We've used MSAccess to generate reports from Bugzilla.  Install MyODBC 
and your MySQL server will behave as an ODBC datasource.



From chicks at chicks.net  Thu Nov 18 22:55:14 2004
From: chicks at chicks.net (Christopher Hicks)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 17:55:14 -0500 (EST)
Subject: my wish list for the next release
In-Reply-To: <20041118221450.GH9416@async.com.br>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0411181220380.17202@skippy.fini.net>
 <20041118221450.GH9416@async.com.br>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0411181731330.17202@skippy.fini.net>

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004, Christian Robottom Reis wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 18, 2004 at 12:32:00PM -0500, Christopher Hicks wrote:
>> (4) Time tracking.  The last time I looked at the patch it seemed like a
>> work still in progress, but that was months ago.
>
> Hey, time tracking works. It's the report that is halted on my lame-ass
> patches.

My entry was very poorly worded.  Travis asked about this off-list too. 
To explain a bit more coherently hopefully... I was just referring to time 
reports.  I've meant for ages to sit down and come up with a weekly 
timesheet so I could see solid numbers for how many billable and 
nonbillable hours we've each worked.  I've got "seat of the pants" 
estimates for these things based on bills we send out, but with half a 
dozen client and half a dozen folks working full or part time it beyond 
what I care to waste brainspace on.  :)

I'm planning on FOSSing my business system on top of bugzilla code once I 
get my DBI to web extensions cleaned up a bit.  If folks are trying to do 
billing based on bugzilla and are dying to have it drop me a note.

-- 
</chris>

"Fans of Mozilla's free, open-source Firefox browser make the
ardent Apple faithful look like a bunch of slackers."
- Rebecca Lieb at clickz.com


From kiko at async.com.br  Fri Nov 19 03:57:58 2004
From: kiko at async.com.br (Christian Robottom Reis)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 01:57:58 -0200
Subject: Feature Request: More customizable terms
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GHP.4.58.0411181051340.11437@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca>
References: <8ad801c4cd7e$40111050$6e00000a@opus> <419CB888.8090406@peshkin.net> <419CBDB9.1030500@bearingpoint.com> <20041118152819.GJ4804@async.com.br> <Pine.GHP.4.58.0411181014480.11437@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca> <20041118165951.GO4804@async.com.br> <Pine.GHP.4.58.0411181051340.11437@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca>
Message-ID: <20041119035757.GB22103@async.com.br>

On Thu, Nov 18, 2004 at 11:24:25AM -0600, Shane H. W. Travis wrote:
> Given that it's been done once, it seems reasonable (to an outsider,
> anyway) that it can be done again.

Not only that, *Gerv* did it -- see bug 13540! :-)

> When Someone In Charge makes a casual suggestion 'Make a patch; it should be
> easy," then that's almost implicit permission/suggestion to do so. Maybe
> some don't perceive it that way, but that's how people who are not part of
> the 'inner circle' see it -- sort of like being pre-approved.

Perhaps I had just never seen things this way. I'll be more precise in
the future.

I'm doing some massive snippage here, but I just want to make clear that
the problems you feel with the process are alike the the ones I perceive
-- I actually wrote to the list about this a while back; about how
participating in an OSS project should be fun, and how we usually fail
that that in Bugzilla.

Our worst problem is definitely the lack of reviewers -- it turns all
other minor snags with the process catastrophes. Able reviewers who can
take the time to sit down and stare at patches for hours are rare, and
it's been hard nurturing more to come along. I'm all for streamlining
that process, and if you have any ideas that can foster reviewers coming
on-board, I'd be happy to listen to them.

Take care,
--
Christian Robottom Reis | http://async.com.br/~kiko/ | [+55 16] 3361 2331


From travis at SEDSystems.ca  Fri Nov 19 04:58:32 2004
From: travis at SEDSystems.ca (Shane H. W. Travis)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 22:58:32 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Fostering developers (was Re: Feature Request)
In-Reply-To: <20041119035757.GB22103@async.com.br>
References: <8ad801c4cd7e$40111050$6e00000a@opus> <419CB888.8090406@peshkin.net>
 <419CBDB9.1030500@bearingpoint.com> <20041118152819.GJ4804@async.com.br>
 <Pine.GHP.4.58.0411181014480.11437@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca>
 <20041118165951.GO4804@async.com.br> <Pine.GHP.4.58.0411181051340.11437@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca>
 <20041119035757.GB22103@async.com.br>
Message-ID: <Pine.GHP.4.58.0411182247230.14307@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca>



On Fri, 19 Nov 2004, Christian Robottom Reis wrote:

> -- I actually wrote to the list about this a while back; about how
> participating in an OSS project should be fun, and how we usually fail
> that that in Bugzilla.

Good summation. I'd be interested in reading the original, if anyone can
remember the time or title so I can look it up in the archives.


> Our worst problem is definitely the lack of reviewers -- it turns all
> other minor snags with the process catastrophes.

Amen, brother.


> Able reviewers who can take the time to sit down and stare at patches for
> hours are rare, and it's been hard nurturing more to come along.

Do you (does anyone) have any thoughts on *why* it has been hard? Is it a
lack of volunteers, or the internal culture of the existing group, or an
absence of guidelines to facilitate the process, or the attitude of one or
more individuals, or a lack of time/desire?


> I'm all for streamlining that process, and if you have any ideas that can
> foster reviewers coming on-board, I'd be happy to listen to them.

Well, I gave some of my ideas earlier, but I'll state the central one again;
feedback. People want to feel like they are needed, that what they are doing
matters, and that ultimately they're making a difference; being ignored
plays against all three of those things. Even *negative* feedback ('patch
rejected for X, Y, Z) is better than nothing, because then the person knows
at least that someone valued their contribution enough to look over it.

It doesn't have to be huge; nobody has to get a sore arm patting every new
contributor on the back or go hoarse singing their praises... just give a
little bit of encouragement wherever possible, in whatever capacity you've
got. A three-line comment (or e-mail) might take you all of ten minutes to
write, but it means a lot to someone who's just starting out.

If everyone takes time to do it, it'll make a big difference in contributor
retention rate, I'm sure.

Shane H.W. Travis       | Anyone who is capable of getting themselves
travis at sedsystems.ca    |  made President should on no account be allowed
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan |  to do the job.  -- Douglas Adams, HHGTTG


From andreas.hoefler at bearingpoint.com  Fri Nov 19 06:34:10 2004
From: andreas.hoefler at bearingpoint.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andreas_H=F6fler?=)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 07:34:10 +0100
Subject: Feature Request: More customizable terms
In-Reply-To: <20041118165951.GO4804@async.com.br>
References: <8ad801c4cd7e$40111050$6e00000a@opus> 
	<419CB888.8090406@peshkin.net> <419CBDB9.1030500@bearingpoint.com> 
	<20041118152819.GJ4804@async.com.br> 
	<Pine.GHP.4.58.0411181014480.11437@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca> 
	<20041118165951.GO4804@async.com.br>
Message-ID: <419D93E2.3040909@bearingpoint.com>

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From kiko at async.com.br  Fri Nov 19 13:27:13 2004
From: kiko at async.com.br (Christian Robottom Reis)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 11:27:13 -0200
Subject: Feature Request: More customizable terms
In-Reply-To: <419D93E2.3040909@bearingpoint.com>
References: <8ad801c4cd7e$40111050$6e00000a@opus> <419CB888.8090406@peshkin.net> <419CBDB9.1030500@bearingpoint.com> <20041118152819.GJ4804@async.com.br> <Pine.GHP.4.58.0411181014480.11437@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca> <20041118165951.GO4804@async.com.br> <419D93E2.3040909@bearingpoint.com>
Message-ID: <20041119132713.GG4639@async.com.br>

On Fri, Nov 19, 2004 at 07:34:10AM +0100, Andreas H?fler wrote:
>    Do you mind if I reopen the [% terms.bug %]?

How about I play it safe and say you need to obtain approval on-list
(i.e. here) from the project owner (Dave Miller) before doing so? I feel
like I've already put myself in a tight spot here..

Take care,
--
Christian Robottom Reis | http://async.com.br/~kiko/ | [+55 16] 3361 2331


From kiko at async.com.br  Fri Nov 19 13:49:52 2004
From: kiko at async.com.br (Christian Robottom Reis)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 11:49:52 -0200
Subject: Fostering developers (was Re: Feature Request)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GHP.4.58.0411182247230.14307@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca>
References: <8ad801c4cd7e$40111050$6e00000a@opus> <419CB888.8090406@peshkin.net> <419CBDB9.1030500@bearingpoint.com> <20041118152819.GJ4804@async.com.br> <Pine.GHP.4.58.0411181014480.11437@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca> <20041118165951.GO4804@async.com.br> <Pine.GHP.4.58.0411181051340.11437@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca> <20041119035757.GB22103@async.com.br> <Pine.GHP.4.58.0411182247230.14307@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca>
Message-ID: <20041119134952.GJ4639@async.com.br>

On Thu, Nov 18, 2004 at 10:58:32PM -0600, Shane H. W. Travis wrote:
> > Able reviewers who can take the time to sit down and stare at patches for
> > hours are rare, and it's been hard nurturing more to come along.
> 
> Do you (does anyone) have any thoughts on *why* it has been hard? Is it a
> lack of volunteers, or the internal culture of the existing group, or an
> absence of guidelines to facilitate the process, or the attitude of one or
> more individuals, or a lack of time/desire?

Not a lot of people show up in the first place. Those that do find the
review process disencouraging; first because it takes ages to happen,
second because people tend to be nitpicky about all the little details.
The state of the codebase, while improving, isn't anything to write home
about.

I don't think most people are disencouraged by the lack of guidelines,
though having a clear direction of where we are going would help a lot.
I suspect this has to do with Dave having been very busy for most of the
past year, and hope it will change over the following weeks.

Take care,
--
Christian Robottom Reis | http://async.com.br/~kiko/ | [+55 16] 3361 2331


From dwilliss at microimages.com  Fri Nov 19 18:00:34 2004
From: dwilliss at microimages.com (Dave Williss)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:00:34 -0600
Subject: Standard reports
References: <D251C7BB8F0AFB46B5F11FFDB26CA6EF0139A0F7@mailman.bos.vfa> <20041118152120.GH4804@async.com.br>
Message-ID: <0a5701c4ce62$2f2ef560$6e00000a@opus>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Christian Robottom Reis" <kiko at async.com.br>
To: <developers at bugzilla.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: Standard reports


> On Wed, Nov 10, 2004 at 01:44:35PM -0500, Cunningham, Tom wrote:
>> I'm not sure whether that was the question.   The question was whether
>> there was a way to create generic reports that get applied to whatever
>> the "current product" is, just like the 'My Bugs' query is applied to
>> whomever the current user is.
>
> If you mean "one-click" reports, no, but it is of course possible to
> generate product-specific reports using Bugzilla's charting feature.
>

How about "Better documentation for the charting feature"?  I can't figure 
it out.
The whole chart setup thing appears to be a separate form, since if comes 
after
the search button.  However, after setting up a Boolean chart, I don't see 
any
"Search" button associated with it.  If you're supposed to use the button 
above
it, then it's not very intuitive.  If you're supposed to click some other 
button then
there's no other button to click.

The rest of the documentation for the advanced search page seems to be
out of date too. 



From dwilliss at microimages.com  Fri Nov 19 18:17:19 2004
From: dwilliss at microimages.com (Dave Williss)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:17:19 -0600
Subject: Feature Request: More customizable terms
References: <8ad801c4cd7e$40111050$6e00000a@opus> <419CB888.8090406@peshkin.net>
Message-ID: <0a7001c4ce64$0741f0f0$6e00000a@opus>

But will that change all the cgi scripts which currently have some
things hardcoded?  For example, the list makes anything with a
severity of "enhancement" gray.  If I change it to NFR, will it know
what that means?

I see this sparked a huge debate, so I'll let you guys fight it out
among yourselves now :-)

By the way, I LOVE the fact that there's a "WORKSFORME"
resolution.  I actually have a rubber stamp that I had made with
that on it and stamp bug sheets with it often. :-)  
.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joel Peshkin" <bugreport at peshkin.net>
To: <developers at bugzilla.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: Feature Request: More customizable terms


> Dave Williss wrote:
> 
>> I'd like to be able to customize more of the terms shown in Bugzilla.
>> Specifically, we'd like to be able to have "enhancement" show up as 
>> NFR (New Feature Request) without changing how it's actually stored 
>> and having to change every place where it's referenced in the CGI 
>> scripts.  The term NFR, besides being what our staff is used to 
>> calling them, fits better on the bug lists.
> 
> All you have to do is edit localconfig and rerun checksetup.
> 
> -
> To view or change your list settings, click here:
> <http://bugzilla.org/cgi-bin/mj_wwwusr?user=dwilliss at microimages.com>


From travis at SEDSystems.ca  Fri Nov 19 18:48:32 2004
From: travis at SEDSystems.ca (Shane H. W. Travis)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:48:32 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Standard reports
In-Reply-To: <0a5701c4ce62$2f2ef560$6e00000a@opus>
References: <D251C7BB8F0AFB46B5F11FFDB26CA6EF0139A0F7@mailman.bos.vfa>
 <20041118152120.GH4804@async.com.br> <0a5701c4ce62$2f2ef560$6e00000a@opus>
Message-ID: <Pine.GHP.4.58.0411191242550.15442@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca>



On Fri, 19 Nov 2004, Dave Williss wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christian Robottom Reis" <kiko at async.com.br>
> To: <developers at bugzilla.org>
> Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 9:21 AM
> Subject: Re: Standard reports

> > If you mean "one-click" reports, no, but it is of course possible to
> > generate product-specific reports using Bugzilla's charting feature.
>
> How about "Better documentation for the charting feature"?

Please open a documentation bug against section 5.10 'Reports and Charts',
with as much detail as possible about what is confusing, and what you think
would be useful. I (personally) need to learn/better understand the new
charting features myself, so if there's a bug open to improve the
documentation I'll try and do that as I climb the learning curve.


> The rest of the documentation for the advanced search page seems to be
> out of date too.

As above - either on the same bug (if it's the same issue), or a new one (if
they're two different things).

Thanks!

Shane H.W. Travis       | Anyone who is capable of getting themselves
travis at sedsystems.ca    |  made President should on no account be allowed
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan |  to do the job.  -- Douglas Adams, HHGTTG


From kevin.benton at amd.com  Fri Nov 19 19:09:17 2004
From: kevin.benton at amd.com (Kevin Benton)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:09:17 -0700
Subject: Crystal Reports & Bugzilla
In-Reply-To: <20041118222556.1AE5260E5D@ldcmail.amd.com>
Message-ID: <20041119190918.ED5B960E5D@ldcmail.amd.com>

FYI all - I was able to hook up Crystal Reports 10 to BZ without any
difficulties at all.  The process was extremely simple for me.  

 

*	Install MyODBC on my local host (Windows - yes, I know, but I won't
go there),
*	Configure MyODBC to talk to the Bugzilla DB in MySQL.  Make sure
that you have MySQL set up to allow remote access to the login if the MySQL
server isn't on the local machine.
*	Start Crystal Reports
*	Select the new ODBC path you created.
*	You're off to the races. :-)

 

What you might find interesting is once MyODBC is installed as above, you
can also use MS-Access's reporting functions to generate reports from your
Bugzilla DB as well (for those who might not want to spend the $195 retail
for CR 10 SE).  That wouldn't be my favorite way in the world of generating
reports for BZ, but sometimes you gotta do what the boss wants.  :-)

 

Kevin

 

 

  _____  

From: developers-owner at bugzilla.org [mailto:developers-owner at bugzilla.org]
On Behalf Of Kevin Benton
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 3:26 PM
To: developers at bugzilla.org
Subject: Crystal Reports & Bugzilla

 

Has anyone here gotten CR to work with BZ?  If so, do you have any tips on
getting them hooked up together?

 

Kevin Benton

Perl/Bugzilla Developer

Advanced Micro Devices

 

 

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From stu at asyn.com  Fri Nov 19 22:40:17 2004
From: stu at asyn.com (Stuart Donaldson)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:40:17 -0800
Subject: Standard reports
In-Reply-To: <20041118152208.GI4804@async.com.br>
References: <419253C0.8060108@asyn.com> <20041118152208.GI4804@async.com.br>
Message-ID: <419E7651.5040105@asyn.com>

Christian Robottom Reis wrote:

>On Wed, Nov 10, 2004 at 09:45:36AM -0800, Stuart Donaldson wrote:
>  
>
>>I know I can set up bookmarks for these, but I run upwards of 30-40 
>>products, and more coming on line all the time, so having to do this 
>>specifically for each product is a big pain. 
>>    
>>
>
>I suggest you change the editproducts output and add a few links that
>would generate reports on the fly using the currently selected product
>name. It stands as a good suggestion, still.
>
>  
>
I defined in localconfig a standardreports list which defines a report 
name, description, and query, along with a period. 

I then created a pre-defined reports page which allows selecting a 
product, and a report for which it then will generate the report. It 
uses a small modification  to buglist.cgi in order to load the query 
based on the product selected and report selected, much like buglist.cgi 
can load a named query.

This goes further in that I created a local-checksetup.pl script that 
will loop through each product, and create a StandardReports subcategory 
and series for each of the standard reports if the period is >=0. 

The net result is that I can manage standard reports and standard series 
data collection across multiple products by maintaining localconfig.  
Sure it would be nice to have a GUI to define the reports, but it is 
really a define the standard reports once and let it go kind of thing 
for me so the GUI is ultra-low priority.

Examples of pre-defined reports that I wanted are:
    Open - not deferred (ie: the target milestone does not contain Defer)
    OpenHot - open bugs with Major or greater severity
    InTest - resolved but not verified or closed
    LastWeek - bugs reported within the last week
    Deferred - bugs that are deferred to a later release

Again, these are all easy to do with named queries, but if you work with 
20-30 products then that becomes 100-150 named queries.

Does this approach sound reasonable?  Would this be something that 
others would find useful?

-Stuart-


From jouni at heikniemi.net  Sat Nov 20 05:45:58 2004
From: jouni at heikniemi.net (Jouni Heikniemi)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 07:45:58 +0200
Subject: Fostering developers (was Re: Feature Request)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GHP.4.58.0411182247230.14307@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca>
References: <8ad801c4cd7e$40111050$6e00000a@opus> <419CB888.8090406@peshkin.net> <419CBDB9.1030500@bearingpoint.com> <20041118152819.GJ4804@async.com.br> <Pine.GHP.4.58.0411181014480.11437@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca> <20041118165951.GO4804@async.com.br> <Pine.GHP.4.58.0411181051340.11437@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca> <20041119035757.GB22103@async.com.br> <Pine.GHP.4.58.0411182247230.14307@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca>
Message-ID: <419EDA16.2020305@heikniemi.net>

My non-organized thought flow worth less than 2 euro cents:


Shane H. W. Travis wrote:

>>Able reviewers who can take the time to sit down and stare at patches for
>>hours are rare, and it's been hard nurturing more to come along.
> Do you (does anyone) have any thoughts on *why* it has been hard? Is it a
> lack of volunteers, or the internal culture of the existing group, or an
> absence of guidelines to facilitate the process, or the attitude of one or
> more individuals, or a lack of time/desire?

Personally, I find reviewing a very fun way to contribute to a project. 
In a sense, it gives you much better view of the project in whole. 
However, the problems are clear: Reviewing is very time-consuming, and 
the meticulous approach it takes is rare to find in people (at least in 
their spare time). Bugzilla's codebase is an issue as mentioned, as is 
the fact that it's somewhat difficult to stay up to date with the 
thoughts of the core developers unless you're active on IRC during 
American evening hours (often fairly unfeasible for Europeans).

I still believe the key problem is the rarity of the people who actually 
want to delve deep enough to the code to be able to review properly. 
Bugzilla seems to emit an interesting characteristic: While the quality 
in some parts of the codebase is far from superior, the requirements for 
new code checkins are pretty harsh. This probably makes Bugzilla a bit 
less attractive than many other OS projects with more lax standards for 
participating.

For me, personally, lack of time is an issue as it's probably for 
everybody else on the current reviewer list. That said, my lack of time 
usually makes me do something else than search for things to do - but if 
requests land on my plate, I'm likely to get rid of them in a timely 
manner.


I believe better organization of the development community would help. 
Dave, while being intimately familiar with the project and a leader with 
lots of vision for the project as a whole, has little time for practical 
every day management / driving of the patches, even the minor ones. This 
is the effort Bugzilla could use, but candidates for such a position are 
really few - many realistic alternatives don't spring to mind atm.

Our formal documentation lays this responsibility onto the shoulders of 
the whole reviewer team, but it's becoming obvious none of us have the 
combination of authority and time to do it. Here's one tidbit of 
experience: When I had just joined the reviewing team 2,5 years ago, I 
had a lot of enthusiasm for all sorts of things. Back then, I _made_ 
time (I really didn't have it available even then, but the motivation 
was great) for reviews and helping people.

However, at that point I also often lacked the authority and the 
knowledge to really help people through the hard decisions. Deferring to 
the senior team was costly in terms of time - and this problem has grown 
worse ever since. It's this particular scenario I believe to be the 
chief culprit for making Bugzilla development harder than it perhaps 
should be.


Jouni



From justdave at bugzilla.org  Sat Nov 20 06:48:32 2004
From: justdave at bugzilla.org (David Miller)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 01:48:32 -0500
Subject: Fostering developers (was Re: Feature Request)
In-Reply-To: <419EDA16.2020305@heikniemi.net>
References: <8ad801c4cd7e$40111050$6e00000a@opus> <419CB888.8090406@peshkin.net> <419CBDB9.1030500@bearingpoint.com> <20041118152819.GJ4804@async.com.br> <Pine.GHP.4.58.0411181014480.11437@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca> <20041118165951.GO4804@async.com.br> <Pine.GHP.4.58.0411181051340.11437@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca> <20041119035757.GB22103@async.com.br> <Pine.GHP.4.58.0411182247230.14307@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca> <419EDA16.2020305@heikniemi.net>
Message-ID: <419EE8C0.6020606@bugzilla.org>

Jouni Heikniemi wrote:

> However, at that point I also often lacked the authority and the 
> knowledge to really help people through the hard decisions. Deferring to 
> the senior team was costly in terms of time - and this problem has grown 
> worse ever since. It's this particular scenario I believe to be the 
> chief culprit for making Bugzilla development harder than it perhaps 
> should be.

Yeah, this pretty well sums it up right there.  It is about 2 years ago 
now I think that a very significant chunk of the senior team suddenly 
got new jobs that took up a lot of their time and didn't leave much for 
Bugzilla.  And unfortunately it was enough of the senior team that there 
wasn't anyone with enough know-how about the project to be able to step 
in and take over (because all of those folks kind of went AWOL at once).

And then it all just snowballed from there.

For those that didn't hear through other channels already (like my blog 
or on IRC), I got hired by the Mozilla Foundation last week.  My primary 
responsibilities will be system administration tasks, however there will 
probably be some time for Bugzilla that can be squeezed in there, 
particularly when there are features they need for mozilla.org's 
Bugzilla.  They also only hired me part time (25 hours per week).  After 
a careful review of the family finances with my wife, we decided we 
could make it work on that level of income, and so I opted to just leave 
my employment at that rather than picking up another job to make up the 
difference, with the express purpose of being able to spend the rest of 
that free time on Bugzilla.  Last week, because of the Firefox 1.0 
release, I got in lots of extra hours because we had to set up and/or 
reconfigure a half a dozen servers on the fly to pick up the extra load. 
:)  This week and probably next, I'll be in catch-up mode.  I've got two 
years of partially ignoring the mailing lists and most of my bugmail to 
catch up on.

The reviewers list on the website got updated yesterday.  It's now 
accurate.  There are people I will accept reviews from that are not on 
that list, and that I will probably ask to do reviews from time to time, 
but I took off everyone who hasn't actually done any reviews in the last 
6 months, since if they're not around to do regular reviews, there's no 
point in telling people to make requests of them.  I also added on 
several of the new people that we've added to the review team over the 
last couple months that hadn't been added to it yet (and who have been 
some of the more active reviewers, despite them not being listed for 
people to know they could make requests of them).  Those are the folks 
who it makes sense to have listed, since they'll be the fastest to 
respond. :)

The roadmap page is next on my list on the website.  I'm going to 
attempt to get that cleaned up right after I finish reviewing this patch 
I keep promising Joel I'm going to tackle :)

-- 
Dave Miller      Project Leader, Bugzilla Bug Tracking System
http://www.justdave.net/             http://www.bugzilla.org/


From justdave at bugzilla.org  Sat Nov 20 06:59:17 2004
From: justdave at bugzilla.org (David Miller)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 01:59:17 -0500
Subject: bug 264868 - problem with emailregexp / emailsuffix in 2.18rc3
In-Reply-To: <1BD2BE5421950B44A7B6E18764EAB9A5019F2778@sf-mail1.corp.ecastinc.com>
References: <1BD2BE5421950B44A7B6E18764EAB9A5019F2778@sf-mail1.corp.ecastinc.com>
Message-ID: <419EEB45.60206@bugzilla.org>

Andrew Kitchen wrote:

> A search of BMO turned up this bug
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=264868 
> (Bug 264868 - show_bug.cgi should honour 'emailsuffix' in 'Reassign bug
> to' field) which seems to describe the problem.  I voted for this bug
> after mistakenly setting the blocking2.18 flag to '+'.  I reset the flag
> to '?' but I would consider this to be a blocker as enabling these
> features makes the system unusable.  I'll try to take a stab at testing
> the proposed patch.

blocking status granted.  That's definitely a regression we need to fix :)


-- 
Dave Miller      Project Leader, Bugzilla Bug Tracking System
http://www.justdave.net/             http://www.bugzilla.org/


From micklweiss at gmx.net  Sat Nov 20 12:45:46 2004
From: micklweiss at gmx.net (Mick Weiss)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 13:45:46 +0100
Subject: Crystal Reports & Bugzilla
In-Reply-To: <20041119190918.ED5B960E5D@ldcmail.amd.com>
References: <20041119190918.ED5B960E5D@ldcmail.amd.com>
Message-ID: <419F3C7A.9080405@gmx.net>

Kevin Benton wrote:
> FYI all - I was able to hook up Crystal Reports 10 to BZ without any
> difficulties at all.  The process was extremely simple for me.  
> 
....
>  
> 
> What you might find interesting is once MyODBC is installed as above, you
> can also use MS-Access's reporting functions to generate reports from your

I know this is probably going way OT, but I have discovered the 
wonderful world of Open Office macros - and I'm using that to create 
nifty 3D charts. I'm really surprised what you can do with that stuff. :-)

> Bugzilla DB as well (for those who might not want to spend the $195 retail
> for CR 10 SE).  That wouldn't be my favorite way in the world of generating
> reports for BZ, but sometimes you gotta do what the boss wants.  :-)

It also helps when your the boss ;)

- Mick

(o> Web / software developer
( )     UNIX Systems Admin
---   ~ www.mickweiss.com ~


From kiko at async.com.br  Sat Nov 20 14:12:09 2004
From: kiko at async.com.br (Christian Robottom Reis)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 12:12:09 -0200
Subject: Standard reports
In-Reply-To: <419E7651.5040105@asyn.com>
References: <419253C0.8060108@asyn.com> <20041118152208.GI4804@async.com.br> <419E7651.5040105@asyn.com>
Message-ID: <20041120141209.GA4669@async.com.br>

On Fri, Nov 19, 2004 at 02:40:17PM -0800, Stuart Donaldson wrote:
> I then created a pre-defined reports page which allows selecting a 
> product, and a report for which it then will generate the report. It 
> uses a small modification  to buglist.cgi in order to load the query 
> based on the product selected and report selected, much like buglist.cgi 
> can load a named query.

It's an interesting approach; I thought of something different, which
I'll explain here. I have a long-term idea that we should have more
"domain-specific" pages in Bugzilla: a page for viewing a User, a page
for viewing a Product, a page for viewing a Group. These pages' main
goal would be to provide general information on the entity, with links
to ready-made reports and interesting statistics (for a Product,
answering the questions how many open bugs? how many all-time closed
bugs? can I see a full report of them?) and other entity-related tasks
(file a bug on this product, edit this product -- for admins).

This is a framework that I think would "bring out" a lot of the richness
that is hidden in Bugzilla, giving these entities homes instead of being
cut apart in half a dozen different pages. Bugzilla is very much
divided into tasks, and I would like to see it more divided into
concepts and then offering tasks upon those concepts. I think this
provides a better interaction model.

Bringing us back into the concrete world, by this I mean that I would
prefer seeing a page with links to ready-made reports kept as a template
(so it is rather easily customizable and reduces the requirement of Yet
Another Administrative Interface for these reports) in something like
show_product.cgi. 

Too blue-skyish?

Take care,
--
Christian Robottom Reis | http://async.com.br/~kiko/ | [+55 16] 3361 2331


From stu at asyn.com  Sat Nov 20 15:03:14 2004
From: stu at asyn.com (Stuart Donaldson)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 07:03:14 -0800
Subject: Standard reports
In-Reply-To: <20041120141209.GA4669@async.com.br>
References: <419253C0.8060108@asyn.com> <20041118152208.GI4804@async.com.br> <419E7651.5040105@asyn.com> <20041120141209.GA4669@async.com.br>
Message-ID: <419F5CB2.50204@asyn.com>

Christian Robottom Reis wrote:

>On Fri, Nov 19, 2004 at 02:40:17PM -0800, Stuart Donaldson wrote:
>  
>
>>I then created a pre-defined reports page which allows selecting a 
>>product, and a report for which it then will generate the report. It 
>>uses a small modification  to buglist.cgi in order to load the query 
>>based on the product selected and report selected, much like buglist.cgi 
>>can load a named query.
>>    
>>
>
>It's an interesting approach; I thought of something different, which
>I'll explain here. I have a long-term idea that we should have more
>"domain-specific" pages in Bugzilla: a page for viewing a User, a page
>for viewing a Product, a page for viewing a Group. These pages' main
>goal would be to provide general information on the entity, with links
>to ready-made reports and interesting statistics (for a Product,
>answering the questions how many open bugs? how many all-time closed
>bugs? can I see a full report of them?) and other entity-related tasks
>(file a bug on this product, edit this product -- for admins).
>  
>
...

>Bringing us back into the concrete world, by this I mean that I would
>prefer seeing a page with links to ready-made reports kept as a template
>(so it is rather easily customizable and reduces the requirement of Yet
>Another Administrative Interface for these reports) in something like
>show_product.cgi. 
>
>Too blue-skyish?
>
>  
>
In general, I like your idea.  I believe there is a need for a 'Product 
Overview' page that gives general stats for a product as well.  This is 
next on my internal wish-list for reporting. 

I had considered this approach for the problem I was trying to solve, 
but I also had a requirement that you should be able to combine multiple 
products into the reports.  So in my implementation, you can actually 
select one or more products, and then select which report to run.  It is 
fairly simple in implementation in that it builds up a query string to 
be processed by buglist.cgi.

I think having the 'domain specific pages' concept is a good one, but I 
couldn't see how it would provide the same functionality and solve the 
same problem that I was shooting for here.

As to the 'too blue-skyish' I think it is a good concept, but I do not 
think that you need another administrative interface for the reports in 
order to get the functionality installed.  The approach I took of 
defining the reports in a structure in localconfig is great to get the 
concept of pre-defined reports out and available.  I don't need a GUI to 
set them up.  Now I would argue that a GUI would be a nice to have, and 
should be worked on eventually.  However, we shouldn't overlook the 
power of doing simple configuration changes by editing pre-defined 
sources like localconfig or the templates.

-Stuart-


From bugreport at peshkin.net  Sat Nov 20 15:10:20 2004
From: bugreport at peshkin.net (Joel Peshkin)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 07:10:20 -0800
Subject: [OT] Crystal Reports & Bugzilla
In-Reply-To: <419F3C7A.9080405@gmx.net>
References: <20041119190918.ED5B960E5D@ldcmail.amd.com> <419F3C7A.9080405@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <419F5E5C.4080301@peshkin.net>

Mick Weiss wrote:

>
> I know this is probably going way OT, but I have discovered the 
> wonderful world of Open Office macros - and I'm using that to create 
> nifty 3D charts. I'm really surprised what you can do with that stuff. 
> :-)
>
Too bad that OO figures everyone will just use their "wizard" for data 
access and assumes that they dont need to document their database 
functions at all.  As a result, I have found it unusable and I am still 
stuck using MSACCESS.  Sad day when you can get access to more of the 
underlying hooks in a MS product than its OSS competitor.




From kiko at async.com.br  Sat Nov 20 17:47:31 2004
From: kiko at async.com.br (Christian Robottom Reis)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 15:47:31 -0200
Subject: Standard reports
In-Reply-To: <419F5CB2.50204@asyn.com>
References: <419253C0.8060108@asyn.com> <20041118152208.GI4804@async.com.br> <419E7651.5040105@asyn.com> <20041120141209.GA4669@async.com.br> <419F5CB2.50204@asyn.com>
Message-ID: <20041120174730.GA4615@async.com.br>

On Sat, Nov 20, 2004 at 07:03:14AM -0800, Stuart Donaldson wrote:
> I had considered this approach for the problem I was trying to solve, 
> but I also had a requirement that you should be able to combine multiple 
> products into the reports.  

Indeed, this is where domain-specific pages stop being useful. Alas,
there is no One Good Solution to this problem; people want to do many
different things with these entities. It's a matter of finding out the
things they want to do *most often* that is our concern.

Take care,
--
Christian Robottom Reis | http://async.com.br/~kiko/ | [+55 16] 3361 2331


From kevin.benton at amd.com  Mon Nov 22 15:45:50 2004
From: kevin.benton at amd.com (Kevin Benton)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 08:45:50 -0700
Subject: Standard reports
In-Reply-To: <20041120141209.GA4669@async.com.br>
Message-ID: <20041122154550.AACE260E5D@ldcmail.amd.com>

I hope not.  Here, we need those types of reports.

We're looking for things like:
Avg. Time to Resolution over a period (i.e. a week)
# of bugs reopened over a period
Time bug assigned to a particular group (TIQ)
Avg. Time to Assignment (from New) over a period
# of bugs in a group's queue
# of bugs resolved over a particular period
...

The period charts I'm planning to create in Crystal Reports will be to
measure performance over time such as # of bugs resolved per week over a
quarter, average TTR per week over a quarter, and so on...  Each of these
reports needs to have drill-down capability so that when a process anomaly
is found, a manager can dive into the information to find out what the
exceptions there are so they can accentuate the positive and correct the
negative.  It makes a lot of sense to me to have this type of metric
reporting in Bugzilla so that mangers have the information needed to
implement process improvement.

One of my favorite charts is a statistical process control chart to find
performance outside "acceptable norm's".  If performance is above the upper
control limit (UCL) or below the lower control limit (LCL), it's time to
investigate.  I use the formula UCL = avg + sqrt(target - avg) and LCL = avg
- sqrt(target - avg).  Avg represents the average performance over the
entire period.  Target represents the performance goal.  Then, I graph
performance in a bar chart with lines for the avg, UCL and LCL.  When
performance falls below the LCL or above the UCL, it's time to investigate
what went wrong or right.  By focusing on the hits, we increase the
frequency of the things we're doing right.  By locating problems in the
misses, we minimize their impact.  As we do this, we approach our target
with more consistency.  Notice that as the target is approached, the control
limits tighten up.

Does this work?  You bet it does.  While managing an operations team, I was
able to help my team find ways to improve their performance over 90% in
about a year through identifying and resolving weaknesses and celebrating
strengths in existing processes.  When I passed the information on to the
team members, they began to participate in the process improvement
themselves.  If we had simply focused on weakness, we would have achieved
similar results, however, it would have been more of a teeth-pulling
experience.  Because we celebrated success as well, we reached our goals
faster and the entire team was willing to participate.

Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: developers-owner at bugzilla.org [mailto:developers-owner at bugzilla.org]
On Behalf Of kiko at async.com.br
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 7:12 AM
To: developers at bugzilla.org
Subject: Re: Standard reports

On Fri, Nov 19, 2004 at 02:40:17PM -0800, Stuart Donaldson wrote:
> I then created a pre-defined reports page which allows selecting a 
> product, and a report for which it then will generate the report. It 
> uses a small modification  to buglist.cgi in order to load the query 
> based on the product selected and report selected, much like buglist.cgi 
> can load a named query.

It's an interesting approach; I thought of something different, which
I'll explain here. I have a long-term idea that we should have more
"domain-specific" pages in Bugzilla: a page for viewing a User, a page
for viewing a Product, a page for viewing a Group. These pages' main
goal would be to provide general information on the entity, with links
to ready-made reports and interesting statistics (for a Product,
answering the questions how many open bugs? how many all-time closed
bugs? can I see a full report of them?) and other entity-related tasks
(file a bug on this product, edit this product -- for admins).

This is a framework that I think would "bring out" a lot of the richness
that is hidden in Bugzilla, giving these entities homes instead of being
cut apart in half a dozen different pages. Bugzilla is very much
divided into tasks, and I would like to see it more divided into
concepts and then offering tasks upon those concepts. I think this
provides a better interaction model.

Bringing us back into the concrete world, by this I mean that I would
prefer seeing a page with links to ready-made reports kept as a template
(so it is rather easily customizable and reduces the requirement of Yet
Another Administrative Interface for these reports) in something like
show_product.cgi. 

Too blue-skyish?

Take care,
--
Christian Robottom Reis | http://async.com.br/~kiko/ | [+55 16] 3361 2331
-
To view or change your list settings, click here:
<http://bugzilla.org/cgi-bin/mj_wwwusr?user=kevin.benton at amd.com>





From bugreport at peshkin.net  Mon Nov 22 16:15:19 2004
From: bugreport at peshkin.net (Joel Peshkin)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 08:15:19 -0800
Subject: Standard reports
In-Reply-To: <20041122154550.AACE260E5D@ldcmail.amd.com>
References: <20041122154550.AACE260E5D@ldcmail.amd.com>
Message-ID: <41A21097.40307@peshkin.net>

Kevin Benton wrote:

>I hope not.  Here, we need those types of reports.
>
>We're looking for things like:
>Avg. Time to Resolution over a period (i.e. a week)
># of bugs reopened over a period
>Time bug assigned to a particular group (TIQ)
>Avg. Time to Assignment (from New) over a period
># of bugs in a group's queue
># of bugs resolved over a particular period
>...
>
>  
>
No argument about the usefullness of those types of report.  However, 
getting the data will require you to have a very sophisticated report 
generator access the underlying schema directly.  All of the information 
exists, but it is not always in the friendliest form.  For example,  
time to resolution involves using the date created (from the bug table) 
and the resolution date (by finding the most recent appropriate entry in 
the activity log).

Similar complexities abound for the other queries.







From kiko at async.com.br  Mon Nov 22 17:08:05 2004
From: kiko at async.com.br (Christian Robottom Reis)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 15:08:05 -0200
Subject: Standard reports
In-Reply-To: <41A21097.40307@peshkin.net>
References: <20041122154550.AACE260E5D@ldcmail.amd.com> <41A21097.40307@peshkin.net>
Message-ID: <20041122170805.GK5171@async.com.br>

On Mon, Nov 22, 2004 at 08:15:19AM -0800, Joel Peshkin wrote:
> exists, but it is not always in the friendliest form.  For example,  
> time to resolution involves using the date created (from the bug table) 
> and the resolution date (by finding the most recent appropriate entry in 
> the activity log).

I have this implemented as a buglist column; no effort to land it
upstream has been made yet, though.

This sort of query is really interesting, and we should make an effort
to prepare a pre-cooked set of them that would be accessible in my
proposed "Reports" redesign. Perhaps Gerv's update will bring us towards
this goal.

Take care,
--
Christian Robottom Reis | http://async.com.br/~kiko/ | [+55 16] 3361 2331


From micklweiss at gmx.net  Mon Nov 22 18:04:15 2004
From: micklweiss at gmx.net (Mick Weiss)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 19:04:15 +0100
Subject: [OT] Crystal Reports & Bugzilla
In-Reply-To: <419F5E5C.4080301@peshkin.net>
References: <20041119190918.ED5B960E5D@ldcmail.amd.com> <419F3C7A.9080405@gmx.net> <419F5E5C.4080301@peshkin.net>
Message-ID: <41A22A1F.5050601@gmx.net>

Just ask in an appropriate forum/mailinglist. The developer's guide
should have it in there. I haven't checked though.

The "help" in OO does go over a "point and click" way to execute SQL. If
you record a macro, I'm sure you can go back and see how it is done w/o
the gui. I do admit that the docs suck (so damn confusing at times).

Never the less, it is a very nice tool.

- Mick

(o> Web / software developer
( )     UNIX Systems Admin
---   ~ www.mickweiss.com ~



Joel Peshkin wrote:
> Mick Weiss wrote:
> 
>>
>> I know this is probably going way OT, but I have discovered the 
>> wonderful world of Open Office macros - and I'm using that to create 
>> nifty 3D charts. I'm really surprised what you can do with that stuff. 
>> :-)
>>
> Too bad that OO figures everyone will just use their "wizard" for data 
> access and assumes that they dont need to document their database 
> functions at all.  As a result, I have found it unusable and I am still 
> stuck using MSACCESS.  Sad day when you can get access to more of the 
> underlying hooks in a MS product than its OSS competitor.
> 
> 
> -
> To view or change your list settings, click here:
> <http://bugzilla.org/cgi-bin/mj_wwwusr?user=micklweiss at gmx.net>
> 
> 



From jake at bugzilla.org  Mon Nov 22 19:23:46 2004
From: jake at bugzilla.org (Jake)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:23:46 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Feature Request: More customizable terms
In-Reply-To: <8ad801c4cd7e$40111050$6e00000a@opus>
References: <8ad801c4cd7e$40111050$6e00000a@opus>
Message-ID: <3344.212.77.216.70.1101151426.squirrel@mail.steenhagen.us>

Just to chime in with my $0.02 here, while I do see a lot of debate in
this bug on customzing terms via the template, I'm gonna ignore that
general discussion and kinda swing this in a slightly different direction.
The particular request being made here, IMHO, should not be solved in this
manner at all. I'm writing this message offline so I don't have the
ability to search for it, but it seems like there's a bug out there
somewhere about making it easier to customize these drop-downs. I believe
it also has to do with removing the enums from Bugzilla altogether. While
that wouldn't solve everybody's problems (like people who want to rename
OS or Product, it would solve this particular issue quite nicely.

And as to your question about the gray state of enhancements in buglist.
That depends a lot on how you make the change. If you hack the code quite
serverly to simple add something like:

<option value="enhancement">NFR</option>

in order to keep storage and are careful about what other changes you make
for display issues... I suppose that would be one way, but not the way I'd
recommend.

Again, I have no refrences handy as I write this, but as I recall the best
way to change this follows. I'm gonna assume that you already have a
database with some bugs set to enhancement.
1. Go localconfig and add "NFR" to the appropriate array
2. Re-run ./checksetup.pl
3. Go to Bugzilla and do a query for all bugs w/the enhancement severity
4. Do a mass change on this buglist and set the severity to NFR
5. Go back to localconfig and remove "enhancement" from that array
6. Re-run ./checksetup.pl

If you don't have any bugs already possesing the "enhancement" severity,
you can skip steps 2, 3, and 4.  Also, if you do have "enhancement" bugs,
you can do steps 3 and 4 via the database directly, but don't ask me how
offhand :)

> I'd like to be able to customize more of the terms shown in Bugzilla.
> Specifically, we'd like to be able to have "enhancement" show up as NFR
> (New
> Feature Request) without changing how it's actually stored and having to
> change every place where it's referenced in the CGI scripts.  The term
> NFR,
> besides being what our staff is used to calling them, fits better on the
> bug lists.
>
> I like how you can customize the term "bug" by editing one template file.
>  If we could just put more terms there and have the templates use them,
> that would be great.  Especially the enums from the database.
>
> Note, I'm using 2.18rc3.  Maybe this has already been done in 2.19.1?  I
> read that more is being templatized, so maybe my wish has already been
> granted.
>
> -- Dave Williss
> ------
> Meddle not in the affairs of dragons,
> for you are crunchy and taste good with catsup
>
> -
> To view or change your list settings, click here:
> <http://bugzilla.org/cgi-bin/mj_wwwusr?user=jake at bugzilla.org>
>
>



From bsnow at eccentrica.ca  Mon Nov 22 19:29:43 2004
From: bsnow at eccentrica.ca (Bill Snow)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:29:43 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Standard reports
In-Reply-To: <41A21097.40307@peshkin.net>
References: <20041122154550.AACE260E5D@ldcmail.amd.com> <41A21097.40307@peshkin.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0411221414110.20448@clarke.tinyplanet.ca>



On Mon, 22 Nov 2004, Joel Peshkin wrote:

> No argument about the usefullness of those types of report.  However, 
> getting the data will require you to have a very sophisticated report 
> generator access the underlying schema directly.  All of the information 
> exists, but it is not always in the friendliest form.  For example, time 
> to resolution involves using the date created (from the bug table) and 
> the resolution date (by finding the most recent appropriate entry in the 
> activity log).
>
> Similar complexities abound for the other queries.


High-level reports on transactional data (like bug actions) can get 
complicated enough that eventually you need to have a different schema for 
reporting than you do for transactions (a data warehouse).

I actually implemented such a mapping (from a 2.17 bugzilla database to a 
custom-crafted star schema) so that a client could answer complicated 
questions like: How many bugs are open at the beginning of each week? and 
What's the average duration of bugs by customer?

One interesting thing about star schema is that they can be hooked up to 
'standard' data and reporting tools.  There is an open-source OLAP server 
called Mondrian that could really open up a can of worms.


I'm not suggesting in any way that this is core bugzilla stuff, but there 
may be other people out there that get asked difficult-to-answer questions 
about their bug data.



Bill Snow
Tiny Planet Consulting

--



I'm a bugzilla-developers lurker of 6 or 8 months, and web consultant with 
Tiny Planet Consulting in Toronto, Canada.  Tiny Planet offers bugzilla 
customization amongst a wide variety of web-development services.


From kevin.benton at amd.com  Mon Nov 22 22:57:00 2004
From: kevin.benton at amd.com (Kevin Benton)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 15:57:00 -0700
Subject: Classification
Message-ID: <20041122225700.34B4060E5D@ldcmail.amd.com>

This is a cool feature, however, I wonder if I'm doing something wrong.  I
turned on the classifications, but when I attempt to add a new bug, it
doesn't ask me for the classification before it asks me for the product in
2.19.1.  Am I missing something?

 

Kevin Benton

Perl/Bugzilla Developer

Advanced Micro Devices

 

 

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From ghendricks at novell.com  Tue Nov 23 00:45:38 2004
From: ghendricks at novell.com (Gregary Hendricks)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:45:38 -0700
Subject: Classification
Message-ID: <s1a225cf.003@sinclair.provo.novell.com>

You need to put products into your classifications. As admin click the
classifications link in the footer and set up a classification. Then
make sure to add some products to that classification.

>>>kevin.benton at amd.com 11/22/04 3:57 pm >>>
This is a cool feature, however, I wonder if I'm doing something wrong. 
I turned on the classifications, but when I attempt to add a new bug, it
doesn't ask me for the classification before it asks me for the product
in 2.19.1.  Am I missing something? 
  
Kevin Benton 
Perl/Bugzilla Developer 
Advanced Micro Devices 
  
  

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From andreas.hoefler at bearingpoint.com  Tue Nov 23 06:23:11 2004
From: andreas.hoefler at bearingpoint.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andreas_H=F6fler?=)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 07:23:11 +0100
Subject: Feature Request: More customizable terms
In-Reply-To: <20041119132713.GG4639@async.com.br>
References: <8ad801c4cd7e$40111050$6e00000a@opus> 
	<419CB888.8090406@peshkin.net> <419CBDB9.1030500@bearingpoint.com> 
	<20041118152819.GJ4804@async.com.br> 
	<Pine.GHP.4.58.0411181014480.11437@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca> 
	<20041118165951.GO4804@async.com.br> <419D93E2.3040909@bearingpoint.com> 
	<20041119132713.GG4639@async.com.br>
Message-ID: <41A2D74F.3060503@bearingpoint.com>

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From justdave at bugzilla.org  Tue Nov 23 07:34:48 2004
From: justdave at bugzilla.org (David Miller)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 02:34:48 -0500
Subject: Feature Request: More customizable terms
In-Reply-To: <41A2D74F.3060503@bearingpoint.com>
References: <8ad801c4cd7e$40111050$6e00000a@opus> 	<419CB888.8090406@peshkin.net> <419CBDB9.1030500@bearingpoint.com> 	<20041118152819.GJ4804@async.com.br> 	<Pine.GHP.4.58.0411181014480.11437@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca> 	<20041118165951.GO4804@async.com.br> <419D93E2.3040909@bearingpoint.com> 	<20041119132713.GG4639@async.com.br> <41A2D74F.3060503@bearingpoint.com>
Message-ID: <41A2E818.20605@bugzilla.org>

Andreas H?fler wrote:

> Dave, will I be coursed and banned to hell if I
> reopen bug 218746 (Terms "Product" and "Component" should be
>  > templatized).?
> 
> Do your concerns which led to the closure of that still apply?

I just reopened it myself.  The thought occurred to me that we already 
have all of the field names defined in variables in the templates 
already, so there's no slope to slip on.  It's just a matter of making 
the templates actually use those variables everywhere.  (And probably 
doing some kind of magic to keep the access keys making sense)

template/en/default/global/field-descs.none.tmpl

-- 
Dave Miller      Project Leader, Bugzilla Bug Tracking System
http://www.justdave.net/             http://www.bugzilla.org/


From jake at bugzilla.org  Tue Nov 23 08:33:26 2004
From: jake at bugzilla.org (Jake)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 03:33:26 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Feature Request: More customizable terms
In-Reply-To: <3344.212.77.216.70.1101151426.squirrel@mail.steenhagen.us>
References: <8ad801c4cd7e$40111050$6e00000a@opus>
    <3344.212.77.216.70.1101151426.squirrel@mail.steenhagen.us>
Message-ID: <3910.212.77.216.70.1101198806.squirrel@mail.steenhagen.us>

Forgot to mention a step:

7. Edit the .css file for buglist and change "bz_enhancement" to "bz_NFR"

> Just to chime in with my $0.02 here, while I do see a lot of debate in
> this bug on customzing terms via the template, I'm gonna ignore that
> general discussion and kinda swing this in a slightly different
> direction. The particular request being made here, IMHO, should not be
> solved in this manner at all. I'm writing this message offline so I don't
> have the ability to search for it, but it seems like there's a bug out
> there somewhere about making it easier to customize these drop-downs. I
> believe it also has to do with removing the enums from Bugzilla
> altogether. While that wouldn't solve everybody's problems (like people
> who want to rename OS or Product, it would solve this particular issue
> quite nicely.
>
> And as to your question about the gray state of enhancements in buglist.
> That depends a lot on how you make the change. If you hack the code quite
> serverly to simple add something like:
>
> <option value="enhancement">NFR</option>
>
>
> in order to keep storage and are careful about what other changes you
> make for display issues... I suppose that would be one way, but not the
> way I'd recommend.
>
> Again, I have no refrences handy as I write this, but as I recall the
> best way to change this follows. I'm gonna assume that you already have a
> database with some bugs set to enhancement. 1. Go localconfig and add
> "NFR" to the appropriate array
> 2. Re-run ./checksetup.pl
> 3. Go to Bugzilla and do a query for all bugs w/the enhancement severity
> 4. Do a mass change on this buglist and set the severity to NFR
> 5. Go back to localconfig and remove "enhancement" from that array
> 6. Re-run ./checksetup.pl
>
>
> If you don't have any bugs already possesing the "enhancement" severity,
> you can skip steps 2, 3, and 4.  Also, if you do have "enhancement" bugs,
> you can do steps 3 and 4 via the database directly, but don't ask me how
> offhand :)
>
>> I'd like to be able to customize more of the terms shown in Bugzilla.
>> Specifically, we'd like to be able to have "enhancement" show up as NFR
>> (New
>> Feature Request) without changing how it's actually stored and having to
>>  change every place where it's referenced in the CGI scripts.  The term
>>  NFR,
>> besides being what our staff is used to calling them, fits better on the
>>  bug lists.
>>
>> I like how you can customize the term "bug" by editing one template
>> file. If we could just put more terms there and have the templates use
>> them, that would be great.  Especially the enums from the database.
>>
>> Note, I'm using 2.18rc3.  Maybe this has already been done in 2.19.1?
>> I
>> read that more is being templatized, so maybe my wish has already been
>> granted.
>>
>> -- Dave Williss
>> ------
>> Meddle not in the affairs of dragons,
>> for you are crunchy and taste good with catsup
>>
>> -
>> To view or change your list settings, click here:
>> <http://bugzilla.org/cgi-bin/mj_wwwusr?user=jake at bugzilla.org>
>>
>>
>>
>
> -
> To view or change your list settings, click here:
> <http://bugzilla.org/cgi-bin/mj_wwwusr?user=jake at bugzilla.org>
>
>



From kiko at async.com.br  Tue Nov 23 10:49:21 2004
From: kiko at async.com.br (Christian Robottom Reis)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 08:49:21 -0200
Subject: Feature Request: More customizable terms
In-Reply-To: <3910.212.77.216.70.1101198806.squirrel@mail.steenhagen.us>
References: <8ad801c4cd7e$40111050$6e00000a@opus> <3344.212.77.216.70.1101151426.squirrel@mail.steenhagen.us> <3910.212.77.216.70.1101198806.squirrel@mail.steenhagen.us>
Message-ID: <20041123104921.GC4867@async.com.br>

On Tue, Nov 23, 2004 at 03:33:26AM -0500, Jake wrote:
> Forgot to mention a step:
> 
> 7. Edit the .css file for buglist and change "bz_enhancement" to "bz_NFR"

Which was the essential step here :-) Good to hear from you, Jake!

Take care,
--
Christian Robottom Reis | http://async.com.br/~kiko/ | [+55 16] 3361 2331


From kevin.benton at amd.com  Tue Nov 23 15:15:46 2004
From: kevin.benton at amd.com (Kevin Benton)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 08:15:46 -0700
Subject: Classification
In-Reply-To: <s1a225cf.003@sinclair.provo.novell.com>
Message-ID: <20041123151546.9944E60E5D@ldcmail.amd.com>

My fault - a misunderstanding.  I had all the products in one
classification, so asking for the classification was not necessary at the
moment.  As soon as I added a new classification, it asked me for the
classification.

 

  _____  

From: developers-owner at bugzilla.org [mailto:developers-owner at bugzilla.org]
On Behalf Of Gregary Hendricks
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 5:46 PM
To: kevin.benton at amd.com; developers at bugzilla.org
Subject: Re: Classification

 

You need to put products into your classifications. As admin click the
classifications link in the footer and set up a classification. Then make
sure to add some products to that classification.

>>>kevin.benton at amd.com 11/22/04 3:57 pm >>>

This is a cool feature, however, I wonder if I'm doing something wrong.  I
turned on the classifications, but when I attempt to add a new bug, it
doesn't ask me for the classification before it asks me for the product in
2.19.1.  Am I missing something? 

  

Kevin Benton 

Perl/Bugzilla Developer 

Advanced Micro Devices 

  

  

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From kevin.benton at amd.com  Tue Nov 23 15:39:52 2004
From: kevin.benton at amd.com (Kevin Benton)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 08:39:52 -0700
Subject: Classification
In-Reply-To: <20041123151546.9944E60E5D@ldcmail.amd.com>
Message-ID: <20041123153952.3C2C960E5D@ldcmail.amd.com>

Actually, now I am more confused.  I added two new products to a new
classification, gave myself permissions for the new products, and now I am
trying to enter bugs against the new products, but it's coming back "Either
not products have been defined to enter bugs against or you have not been
given access to any."  I did remove the groups created for the new products
so they would be publicly viewable.

 

  _____  

From: developers-owner at bugzilla.org [mailto:developers-owner at bugzilla.org]
On Behalf Of Kevin Benton
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 8:16 AM
To: developers at bugzilla.org
Subject: Re: Classification

 

My fault - a misunderstanding.  I had all the products in one
classification, so asking for the classification was not necessary at the
moment.  As soon as I added a new classification, it asked me for the
classification.

 

  _____  

From: developers-owner at bugzilla.org [mailto:developers-owner at bugzilla.org]
On Behalf Of Gregary Hendricks
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 5:46 PM
To: kevin.benton at amd.com; developers at bugzilla.org
Subject: Re: Classification

 

You need to put products into your classifications. As admin click the
classifications link in the footer and set up a classification. Then make
sure to add some products to that classification.

>>>kevin.benton at amd.com 11/22/04 3:57 pm >>>

This is a cool feature, however, I wonder if I'm doing something wrong.  I
turned on the classifications, but when I attempt to add a new bug, it
doesn't ask me for the classification before it asks me for the product in
2.19.1.  Am I missing something? 

  

Kevin Benton 

Perl/Bugzilla Developer 

Advanced Micro Devices 

  

  

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From kniht at us.ibm.com  Tue Nov 23 16:03:59 2004
From: kniht at us.ibm.com (Jon Tollefson)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:03:59 -0600
Subject: Classification
In-Reply-To: <20041123153952.3C2C960E5D@ldcmail.amd.com>
References: <20041123153952.3C2C960E5D@ldcmail.amd.com>
Message-ID: <1101225838.14955.0.camel@skynet.rchland.ibm.com>

Do you have components defined for those products?
Jon

On Tue, 2004-11-23 at 09:39, Kevin Benton wrote:
> Actually, now I am more confused.  I added two new products to a new
> classification, gave myself permissions for the new products, and now
> I am trying to enter bugs against the new products, but it?s coming
> back ?Either not products have been defined to enter bugs against or
> you have not been given access to any.?  I did remove the groups
> created for the new products so they would be publicly viewable.
> 
>  
> 
>                                    
> ______________________________________________________________________
> 
> From:developers-owner at bugzilla.org
> [mailto:developers-owner at bugzilla.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Benton
> Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 8:16 AM
> To: developers at bugzilla.org
> Subject: Re: Classification
> 
> 
>  
> 
> My fault ? a misunderstanding.  I had all the products in one
> classification, so asking for the classification was not necessary at
> the moment.  As soon as I added a new classification, it asked me for
> the classification.
> 
>  
> 
>                                    
> ______________________________________________________________________
> 
> From: developers-owner at bugzilla.org
> [mailto:developers-owner at bugzilla.org] On Behalf Of Gregary Hendricks
> Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 5:46 PM
> To: kevin.benton at amd.com; developers at bugzilla.org
> Subject: Re: Classification
> 
> 
>  
> 
> You need to put products into your classifications. As admin click the
> classifications link in the footer and set up a classification. Then
> make sure to add some products to that classification.
> 
> >>>kevin.benton at amd.com 11/22/04 3:57 pm >>>
> 
> 
> This is a cool feature, however, I wonder if I?m doing something
> wrong.  I turned on the classifications, but when I attempt to add a
> new bug, it doesn?t ask me for the classification before it asks me
> for the product in 2.19.1.  Am I missing something?
> 
> 
>  
> 
> Kevin Benton
> 
> 
> Perl/Bugzilla Developer
> 
> 
> Advanced Micro Devices



From kevin.benton at amd.com  Tue Nov 23 16:40:26 2004
From: kevin.benton at amd.com (Kevin Benton)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 09:40:26 -0700
Subject: Classification
In-Reply-To: <1101225838.14955.0.camel@skynet.rchland.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <20041123164026.12FF560E5E@ldcmail.amd.com>

No, there are no components for those products.

BTW - I just did some debug printing and got to
globals.pl:IsInClassification() and found that for some reason, it is not
getting called when the product actually is in the classification.

        my $query = "SELECT classifications.name " .
          "FROM products,classifications " .
            "WHERE products.classification_id=classifications.id ";
        $query .= "AND products.name = " . SqlQuote($productname);
        if (($productname ne 'Product1') &&
            ($productname ne 'Product2') &&
            ($productname ne 'Product3')) {
            print("Content-type: text/html\n\n\nMade it here.
c=$classification, p=$productname,<BR>q=$query\n"); exit;
        }
        PushGlobalSQLState();

So, if Products 1, 2, and 3 are in the Platform classification, and Products
4 and 5 are in the Tools classification, when I select Tools as the
classification to add a new ticket in, I'm not seeing this routine print
"Made it here." ever.

This is confusing.  Anyone have any suggestions?

-----Original Message-----
From: developers-owner at bugzilla.org [mailto:developers-owner at bugzilla.org]
On Behalf Of Jon Tollefson
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 9:04 AM
To: developers at bugzilla.org
Subject: Re: Classification

Do you have components defined for those products?
Jon

On Tue, 2004-11-23 at 09:39, Kevin Benton wrote:
> Actually, now I am more confused.  I added two new products to a new
> classification, gave myself permissions for the new products, and now
> I am trying to enter bugs against the new products, but it's coming
> back "Either not products have been defined to enter bugs against or
> you have not been given access to any."  I did remove the groups
> created for the new products so they would be publicly viewable.
> 
>  
> 
>                                    
> ______________________________________________________________________
> 
> From:developers-owner at bugzilla.org
> [mailto:developers-owner at bugzilla.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Benton
> Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 8:16 AM
> To: developers at bugzilla.org
> Subject: Re: Classification
> 
> 
>  
> 
> My fault - a misunderstanding.  I had all the products in one
> classification, so asking for the classification was not necessary at
> the moment.  As soon as I added a new classification, it asked me for
> the classification.
> 
>  
> 
>                                    
> ______________________________________________________________________
> 
> From: developers-owner at bugzilla.org
> [mailto:developers-owner at bugzilla.org] On Behalf Of Gregary Hendricks
> Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 5:46 PM
> To: kevin.benton at amd.com; developers at bugzilla.org
> Subject: Re: Classification
> 
> 
>  
> 
> You need to put products into your classifications. As admin click the
> classifications link in the footer and set up a classification. Then
> make sure to add some products to that classification.
> 
> >>>kevin.benton at amd.com 11/22/04 3:57 pm >>>
> 
> 
> This is a cool feature, however, I wonder if I'm doing something
> wrong.  I turned on the classifications, but when I attempt to add a
> new bug, it doesn't ask me for the classification before it asks me
> for the product in 2.19.1.  Am I missing something?
> 
> 
>  
> 
> Kevin Benton
> 
> 
> Perl/Bugzilla Developer
> 
> 
> Advanced Micro Devices

-
To view or change your list settings, click here:
<http://bugzilla.org/cgi-bin/mj_wwwusr?user=kevin.benton at amd.com>





From jpyeron at pdinc.us  Tue Nov 23 16:46:49 2004
From: jpyeron at pdinc.us (Jason Pyeron)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 11:46:49 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Classification
In-Reply-To: <20041123164026.12FF560E5E@ldcmail.amd.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0411231145500.12565-100000@ns.pyerotechnics.com>


Products always need components, as a rule if I don't need a component I 
create a "default" component.

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004, Kevin Benton wrote:

> No, there are no components for those products.
> 

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-                                                               -
- Jason Pyeron                      PD Inc. http://www.pdinc.us -
- Partner & Sr. Manager              #1 2739 Saint Paul Street  -
- +1 (410) 808-6646 (c)              Baltimore, Maryland 21218  -
-                                                               -
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain 
privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you 
have received it in error, purge the message from your system and 
notify the sender immediately.  Any other use of the email by you 
is prohibited.





From kevin.benton at amd.com  Tue Nov 23 17:17:31 2004
From: kevin.benton at amd.com (Kevin Benton)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:17:31 -0700
Subject: Classification
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0411231145500.12565-100000@ns.pyerotechnics.com>
Message-ID: <20041123171731.89DCA60E5E@ldcmail.amd.com>

ARRG!  The problem wasn't a lack of components.  The problem was that
somehow (in versioncache), the list of enterable products had been hard
coded.  It looks like versioncache is created by checksetup.pl.  So, if my
interpretation is correct, each time a new product is added, checksetup.pl
must be run.  Is that correct?

-----Original Message-----
From: developers-owner at bugzilla.org [mailto:developers-owner at bugzilla.org]
On Behalf Of Jason Pyeron
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 9:47 AM
To: developers at bugzilla.org
Subject: Re: Classification


Products always need components, as a rule if I don't need a component I 
create a "default" component.

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004, Kevin Benton wrote:

> No, there are no components for those products.
> 

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-                                                               -
- Jason Pyeron                      PD Inc. http://www.pdinc.us -
- Partner & Sr. Manager              #1 2739 Saint Paul Street  -
- +1 (410) 808-6646 (c)              Baltimore, Maryland 21218  -
-                                                               -
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain 
privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you 
have received it in error, purge the message from your system and 
notify the sender immediately.  Any other use of the email by you 
is prohibited.



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From kiko at async.com.br  Tue Nov 23 17:48:56 2004
From: kiko at async.com.br (Christian Robottom Reis)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 15:48:56 -0200
Subject: Classification
In-Reply-To: <20041123171731.89DCA60E5E@ldcmail.amd.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0411231145500.12565-100000@ns.pyerotechnics.com> <20041123171731.89DCA60E5E@ldcmail.amd.com>
Message-ID: <20041123174856.GA7011@async.com.br>

On Tue, Nov 23, 2004 at 10:17:31AM -0700, Kevin Benton wrote:
> ARRG!  The problem wasn't a lack of components.  The problem was that
> somehow (in versioncache), the list of enterable products had been hard
> coded.  It looks like versioncache is created by checksetup.pl.  So, if my
> interpretation is correct, each time a new product is added, checksetup.pl
> must be run.  Is that correct?

No, IIRC the versioncache is regenerated any time you try to read it and it
doesn't exist, or when you alter a product. Take a look at globals.pl,
which holds the functions that manipulate it -- GenerateVersionTable in
particular.

Take care,
--
Christian Robottom Reis | http://async.com.br/~kiko/ | [+55 16] 3361 2331


From kevin.benton at amd.com  Tue Nov 23 18:14:33 2004
From: kevin.benton at amd.com (Kevin Benton)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 11:14:33 -0700
Subject: Classification
In-Reply-To: <20041123174856.GA7011@async.com.br>
Message-ID: <20041123181433.EAD4A60E5D@ldcmail.amd.com>

Sorry all - problem fixed.  I have to admit, being new can present special
challenges.  I wonder, does it make sense to add notes to the add product
screen to make sure new admins know to add components so they will be able
to post bugs to their new products?  I think it would help new
administrators like myself to understand how things work a little
easier/more quickly.

Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: developers-owner at bugzilla.org [mailto:developers-owner at bugzilla.org]
On Behalf Of kiko at async.com.br
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 10:49 AM
To: developers at bugzilla.org
Subject: Re: Classification

On Tue, Nov 23, 2004 at 10:17:31AM -0700, Kevin Benton wrote:
> ARRG!  The problem wasn't a lack of components.  The problem was that
> somehow (in versioncache), the list of enterable products had been hard
> coded.  It looks like versioncache is created by checksetup.pl.  So, if my
> interpretation is correct, each time a new product is added, checksetup.pl
> must be run.  Is that correct?

No, IIRC the versioncache is regenerated any time you try to read it and it
doesn't exist, or when you alter a product. Take a look at globals.pl,
which holds the functions that manipulate it -- GenerateVersionTable in
particular.

Take care,
--
Christian Robottom Reis | http://async.com.br/~kiko/ | [+55 16] 3361 2331
-
To view or change your list settings, click here:
<http://bugzilla.org/cgi-bin/mj_wwwusr?user=kevin.benton at amd.com>





From kiko at async.com.br  Tue Nov 23 18:23:51 2004
From: kiko at async.com.br (Christian Robottom Reis)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 16:23:51 -0200
Subject: Classification
In-Reply-To: <20041123181433.EAD4A60E5D@ldcmail.amd.com>
References: <20041123174856.GA7011@async.com.br> <20041123181433.EAD4A60E5D@ldcmail.amd.com>
Message-ID: <20041123182351.GC7011@async.com.br>

On Tue, Nov 23, 2004 at 11:14:33AM -0700, Kevin Benton wrote:
> Sorry all - problem fixed.  I have to admit, being new can present special
> challenges.  I wonder, does it make sense to add notes to the add product
> screen to make sure new admins know to add components so they will be able
> to post bugs to their new products?  I think it would help new
> administrators like myself to understand how things work a little
> easier/more quickly.

Perhaps. And perhaps post_bug should make it clear that if there are no
components defined for any products, bugs can't be filed. 

Take care,
--
Christian Robottom Reis | http://async.com.br/~kiko/ | [+55 16] 3361 2331


From jpyeron at pdinc.us  Tue Nov 23 18:37:01 2004
From: jpyeron at pdinc.us (Jason Pyeron)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 13:37:01 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Classification
In-Reply-To: <20041123182351.GC7011@async.com.br>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0411231335030.12565-100000@ns.pyerotechnics.com>



I am asking to be yelled at here, but I think that when a new product is 
created it should create a default component/version, which then can be 
renamed.

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004, Christian Robottom Reis wrote:

> Perhaps. And perhaps post_bug should make it clear that if there are no
> components defined for any products, bugs can't be filed. 
> 

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-                                                               -
- Jason Pyeron                      PD Inc. http://www.pdinc.us -
- Partner & Sr. Manager              #1 2739 Saint Paul Street  -
- +1 (410) 808-6646 (c)              Baltimore, Maryland 21218  -
-                                                               -
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain 
privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you 
have received it in error, purge the message from your system and 
notify the sender immediately.  Any other use of the email by you 
is prohibited.





From kiko at async.com.br  Tue Nov 23 18:45:25 2004
From: kiko at async.com.br (Christian Robottom Reis)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 16:45:25 -0200
Subject: Classification
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0411231335030.12565-100000@ns.pyerotechnics.com>
References: <20041123182351.GC7011@async.com.br> <Pine.LNX.4.44.0411231335030.12565-100000@ns.pyerotechnics.com>
Message-ID: <20041123184525.GD7011@async.com.br>

On Tue, Nov 23, 2004 at 01:37:01PM -0500, Jason Pyeron wrote:
> I am asking to be yelled at here, but I think that when a new product is 
> created it should create a default component/version, which then can be 
> renamed.

Hummm. I don't see why that's not a good idea. Dave?

Take care,
--
Christian Robottom Reis | http://async.com.br/~kiko/ | [+55 16] 3361 2331


From timeless at myrealbox.com  Tue Nov 23 18:45:40 2004
From: timeless at myrealbox.com (timeless)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:45:40 -0800
Subject: Classification
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0411231335030.12565-100000@ns.pyerotechnics.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0411231335030.12565-100000@ns.pyerotechnics.com>
Message-ID: <41A38554.2090101@myrealbox.com>

Jason Pyeron wrote:
> I am asking to be yelled at here, but I think that when a new product is 
> created it should create a default component/version, which then can be 
> renamed.

if it should, then the product should be closed to new bugs by default 
to prevent people from being able to dump bugs before the admin really 
sets it up...

i'm pretty sure i'm in the anti camp, but i don't have energy to figure 
out why.


From jpyeron at pdinc.us  Tue Nov 23 18:50:03 2004
From: jpyeron at pdinc.us (Jason Pyeron)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 13:50:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: b.m.o
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0411231335030.12565-100000@ns.pyerotechnics.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0411231349190.12565-100000@ns.pyerotechnics.com>


Am I missing something, but I cannot seem to "change several bugs at 
once".

-jason

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-                                                               -
- Jason Pyeron                      PD Inc. http://www.pdinc.us -
- Partner & Sr. Manager              #1 2739 Saint Paul Street  -
- +1 (410) 808-6646 (c)              Baltimore, Maryland 21218  -
-                                                               -
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have received it in error, purge the message from your system and 
notify the sender immediately.  Any other use of the email by you 
is prohibited.





From jpyeron at pdinc.us  Tue Nov 23 18:57:39 2004
From: jpyeron at pdinc.us (Jason Pyeron)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 13:57:39 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Classification
In-Reply-To: <41A38554.2090101@myrealbox.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0411231353400.12565-100000@ns.pyerotechnics.com>

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004, timeless wrote:

> if it should, then the product should be closed to new bugs by default 
> to prevent people from being able to dump bugs before the admin really 
> sets it up...
>

okay, seems reasonable. that can be done just by default checking the 
checkbox.

> 
> i'm pretty sure i'm in the anti camp, but i don't have energy to figure 
> out why.

it is more fun there

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-                                                               -
- Jason Pyeron                      PD Inc. http://www.pdinc.us -
- Partner & Sr. Manager              #1 2739 Saint Paul Street  -
- +1 (410) 808-6646 (c)              Baltimore, Maryland 21218  -
-                                                               -
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From justdave at bugzilla.org  Tue Nov 23 19:32:57 2004
From: justdave at bugzilla.org (David Miller)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 14:32:57 -0500
Subject: Classification
In-Reply-To: <20041123184525.GD7011@async.com.br>
References: <20041123182351.GC7011@async.com.br> <Pine.LNX.4.44.0411231335030.12565-100000@ns.pyerotechnics.com> <20041123184525.GD7011@async.com.br>
Message-ID: <41A39069.6030301@bugzilla.org>

Christian Robottom Reis wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 23, 2004 at 01:37:01PM -0500, Jason Pyeron wrote:
> 
>>I am asking to be yelled at here, but I think that when a new product is 
>>created it should create a default component/version, which then can be 
>>renamed.
> 
> 
> Hummm. I don't see why that's not a good idea. Dave?

I like that idea, too.  Alternatively, the confirmation screen for 
creating a product should dump you directly into the create a new 
component screen.

-- 
Dave Miller      Project Leader, Bugzilla Bug Tracking System
http://www.justdave.net/             http://www.bugzilla.org/


From kevin.benton at amd.com  Tue Nov 23 19:32:46 2004
From: kevin.benton at amd.com (Kevin Benton)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 12:32:46 -0700
Subject: Classification
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0411231353400.12565-100000@ns.pyerotechnics.com>
Message-ID: <20041123193246.1FBBA60E5D@ldcmail.amd.com>

I agree completely.  The question is, how do you specify the assign_to and
qa contacts?  Maybe that ought to be defined at the classification level, or
for those who don't use classification, at the Bugzilla system config level.
I think Jason's idea of a checkbox to determine whether or not new bugs can
be assigned to the group is also appropriate.  While we're at it, it seems
to me that the "creation of new groups" for the product being created ought
to be optional (via a checkbox) as well.  There are installations out there
that don't use the group security features and creating new groups is just
adding more work for BZ and the sys admin.

Kevin

P.S.  Nice discussion :)


-----Original Message-----
From: developers-owner at bugzilla.org [mailto:developers-owner at bugzilla.org]
On Behalf Of Jason Pyeron
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 11:58 AM
To: developers at bugzilla.org
Subject: Re: Classification

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004, timeless wrote:

> if it should, then the product should be closed to new bugs by default 
> to prevent people from being able to dump bugs before the admin really 
> sets it up...
>

okay, seems reasonable. that can be done just by default checking the 
checkbox.

> 
> i'm pretty sure i'm in the anti camp, but i don't have energy to figure 
> out why.

it is more fun there

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-                                                               -
- Jason Pyeron                      PD Inc. http://www.pdinc.us -
- Partner & Sr. Manager              #1 2739 Saint Paul Street  -
- +1 (410) 808-6646 (c)              Baltimore, Maryland 21218  -
-                                                               -
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain 
privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you 
have received it in error, purge the message from your system and 
notify the sender immediately.  Any other use of the email by you 
is prohibited.




-
To view or change your list settings, click here:
<http://bugzilla.org/cgi-bin/mj_wwwusr?user=kevin.benton at amd.com>





From justdave at bugzilla.org  Tue Nov 23 19:33:53 2004
From: justdave at bugzilla.org (David Miller)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 14:33:53 -0500
Subject: b.m.o
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0411231349190.12565-100000@ns.pyerotechnics.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0411231349190.12565-100000@ns.pyerotechnics.com>
Message-ID: <41A390A1.3060904@bugzilla.org>

Jason Pyeron wrote:
> Am I missing something, but I cannot seem to "change several bugs at 
> once".

Check the permissions tab in your preferences and see if you have 
editbugs.  You need editbugs to see that link.

-- 
Dave Miller      Project Leader, Bugzilla Bug Tracking System
http://www.justdave.net/             http://www.bugzilla.org/


From timeless at myrealbox.com  Tue Nov 23 20:01:41 2004
From: timeless at myrealbox.com (timeless)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 12:01:41 -0800
Subject: b.m.o
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0411231349190.12565-100000@ns.pyerotechnics.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0411231349190.12565-100000@ns.pyerotechnics.com>
Message-ID: <41A39725.80009@myrealbox.com>

Jason Pyeron wrote:
> Am I missing something, but I cannot seem to "change several bugs at 
> once".

make sure you have more than one bug in your list (grr)


From jpyeron at pdinc.us  Tue Nov 23 20:10:09 2004
From: jpyeron at pdinc.us (Jason Pyeron)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 15:10:09 -0500 (EST)
Subject: b.m.o
In-Reply-To: <41A390A1.3060904@bugzilla.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0411231509010.12565-100000@ns.pyerotechnics.com>


You should not have to have editbugs, since there are other ways which a 
user is allowed to edit.

For example a list of my bugs.

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004, David Miller wrote:

> Jason Pyeron wrote:
> > Am I missing something, but I cannot seem to "change several bugs at 
> > once".
> 
> Check the permissions tab in your preferences and see if you have 
> editbugs.  You need editbugs to see that link.
> 
> 

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-                                                               -
- Jason Pyeron                      PD Inc. http://www.pdinc.us -
- Partner & Sr. Manager              #1 2739 Saint Paul Street  -
- +1 (410) 808-6646 (c)              Baltimore, Maryland 21218  -
-                                                               -
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain 
privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you 
have received it in error, purge the message from your system and 
notify the sender immediately.  Any other use of the email by you 
is prohibited.





From travis at SEDSystems.ca  Wed Nov 24 17:50:47 2004
From: travis at SEDSystems.ca (Shane H. W. Travis)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 11:50:47 -0600 (CST)
Subject: mysqldump, indexes, and checksetup
Message-ID: <Pine.GHP.4.58.0411241059490.26396@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca>


So I'm running checksetup from 2.18rc3 on our 2.16.7 database, and it seems
to be balking at one point; it isn't properly clearing away the index
'product' from 'milestones' because it can't find an index of that name.

As background: I'm doing all my upgrading on a second machine to be assured
that everything is working well (customizations, etc.) before it goes live.
To facilitate this, I copied the database over... and this seems to be the
source of the problem.


On the original machine:

mysql> show index from milestones;
+------------+------------+----------+--------------+-------------+-----------+-------------+----------+--------+---------+
| Table      | Non_unique | Key_name | Seq_in_index | Column_name | Collation | Cardinality | Sub_part | Packed | Comment |
+------------+------------+----------+--------------+-------------+-----------+-------------+----------+--------+---------+
| milestones |          0 | product  |            1 | product     | A         |        NULL |     NULL | NULL   |         |
| milestones |          0 | product  |            2 | value       | A         |          34 |     NULL | NULL   |         |
+------------+------------+----------+--------------+-------------+-----------+-------------+----------+--------+---------+
2 rows in set (0.01 sec)


Looks good, looks like it should work. In transferring to the other machine,
however (mysqldump -c -q), the output file shows this:

CREATE TABLE milestones (
  value varchar(20) NOT NULL default '',
  product varchar(64) NOT NULL default '',
  sortkey smallint(6) NOT NULL default '0',
  PRIMARY KEY  (product,value)                  <--- here is the problem
) TYPE=MyISAM;

... which creates this:

mysql> show index from milestones;
+------------+------------+----------+--------------+-------------+-----------+-------------+----------+--------+---------+
| Table      | Non_unique | Key_name | Seq_in_index | Column_name | Collation | Cardinality | Sub_part | Packed | Comment |
+------------+------------+----------+--------------+-------------+-----------+-------------+----------+--------+---------+
| milestones |          0 | PRIMARY  |            1 | product     | A         |        NULL |     NULL | NULL   |         |
| milestones |          0 | PRIMARY  |            2 | value       | A         |          34 |     NULL | NULL   |         |
+------------+------------+----------+--------------+-------------+-----------+-------------+----------+--------+---------+
2 rows in set (0.00 sec)


That difference plays hob with checksetup.pl line 3333, which says

    $dbh->do("ALTER TABLE milestones DROP INDEX product");

and produces the output:

=========
...
Fixing Indexes and Uniqueness.
DBD::mysql::db do failed: Can't DROP 'product'. Check that column/key exists
at ./checksetup.pl line 3417.
Removing, renaming, and retyping old product and component fields.
Deleting unused field program from table components ...
Deleting unused field program from table versions ...
Deleting unused field product from table milestones ...
DBD::mysql::db do failed: Duplicate entry '---' for key 1 at ./checksetup.pl line 2468.
...
=========
(line numbers different in output due to local customizations)

Without addressing this, I'm left with an unwanted 'product' in milestones,
and I end up with two indexes.

Now this isn't a huge issue for me; I could figure out how to get around it
(adding a DROP PRIMARY KEY to the checksetup.pl), and it was 'only' my
upgrading test system anyway, but it seems to me that it could affect more
people than just me. Anyone who has ever had to re-create a corrupt database
from a nightly MySQLDump backup could easily run into the same problem; it
would never manifest in day-to-day operations, but would become a real
problem on upgrading.

So, what I'm wondering if this is a defect/oversight in the checksetup file,
a problem with how mysqldump works, or just something I'm missing about one
or both.

Any insights?

Shane H.W. Travis       | Anyone who is capable of getting themselves
travis at sedsystems.ca    |  made President should on no account be allowed
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan |  to do the job.  -- Douglas Adams, HHGTTG







From justdave at bugzilla.org  Wed Nov 24 18:30:06 2004
From: justdave at bugzilla.org (David Miller)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 13:30:06 -0500
Subject: mysqldump, indexes, and checksetup
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GHP.4.58.0411241059490.26396@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca>
References: <Pine.GHP.4.58.0411241059490.26396@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca>
Message-ID: <41A4D32E.6000301@bugzilla.org>

Shane H. W. Travis wrote:
> So I'm running checksetup from 2.18rc3 on our 2.16.7 database, and it seems
> to be balking at one point; it isn't properly clearing away the index
> 'product' from 'milestones' because it can't find an index of that name.

Someone else reported this in Bugzilla a while back and it got resolved 
WORKSFORME because nobody could reproduce it, and checksetup.pl has 
never in the entire history of Bugzilla ever created a primary key on 
that table.

If it's a defect in mysqldump, that would explain a lot.  If you can 
track sown said bug, let's reopen it.  We probably need to make 
checksetup.pl examine the current indexes and be prepared to drop either 
one, depending on which it ended up with.

-- 
Dave Miller      Project Leader, Bugzilla Bug Tracking System
http://www.justdave.net/             http://www.bugzilla.org/


From travis at SEDSystems.ca  Wed Nov 24 18:55:06 2004
From: travis at SEDSystems.ca (Shane H. W. Travis)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 12:55:06 -0600 (CST)
Subject: mysqldump, indexes, and checksetup
In-Reply-To: <41A4D32E.6000301@bugzilla.org>
References: <Pine.GHP.4.58.0411241059490.26396@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca>
 <41A4D32E.6000301@bugzilla.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GHP.4.58.0411241252120.26396@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca>



On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, David Miller wrote:

> If it's a defect in mysqldump, that would explain a lot.  If you can
> track sown said bug, let's reopen it.

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=244756

Reopened, including further reproduction information from my original
letter.

-- 
Shane Travis            | It is not how much we have, but how much we
travis at sedsystems.ca    |  enjoy what we have that makes happiness.
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan |    - Charles H. Spurgem


From kevin.benton at amd.com  Wed Nov 24 22:19:59 2004
From: kevin.benton at amd.com (Kevin Benton)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 15:19:59 -0700
Subject: Upgrading one version at a time
Message-ID: <20041124222000.16B9460E5D@ldcmail.amd.com>

Hi all.  I want to upgrade a number of BZ systems from 2.16.x and 2.17.x all
to 2.19.1.  I'd like to do it by grabbing patches that will upgrade me one
version at a time along the way.  Does anyone have a list of patches I can
download to help me get there?  As you can imagine, when I get all the
systems up to the same rev, I may make the jump from 2.17.4 to 2.19.1, but
till I get there, I still need the patches.

 

Kevin Benton

Perl/Bugzilla Developer

Advanced Micro Devices

 

 

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From dwilliss at microimages.com  Wed Nov 24 23:27:20 2004
From: dwilliss at microimages.com (Dave Williss)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 17:27:20 -0600
Subject: Default version for new bugs?
Message-ID: <639d01c4d27d$2745b040$6e00000a@opus>

Is there a way to set the default version for new bugs?
The template looks like it's trying to get it from some kind of filter, but
I don't see any place to set it and I don't see any place in the database
to store it.  We'd like to be able to set it on a per-product basis, since
different products are at different version numbers.
The products table has a defaultmilestone field, but no devaultversion.

 -- Dave Williss
------
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, 
   for you are crunchy and taste good with catsup


From jake at bugzilla.org  Thu Nov 25 01:45:53 2004
From: jake at bugzilla.org (Jake)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 20:45:53 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Feature Request: More customizable terms
In-Reply-To: <20041123104921.GC4867@async.com.br>
References: <8ad801c4cd7e$40111050$6e00000a@opus>
    <3344.212.77.216.70.1101151426.squirrel@mail.steenhagen.us>
    <3910.212.77.216.70.1101198806.squirrel@mail.steenhagen.us>
    <20041123104921.GC4867@async.com.br>
Message-ID: <2211.204.208.181.235.1101347153.squirrel@mail.steenhagen.us>

Ya, I felt kinda stupid for having sent it out w/out adding that step :).

> On Tue, Nov 23, 2004 at 03:33:26AM -0500, Jake wrote:
>
>> Forgot to mention a step:
>>
>>
>> 7. Edit the .css file for buglist and change "bz_enhancement" to
>> "bz_NFR"
>>
>
> Which was the essential step here :-) Good to hear from you, Jake!
>
>
> Take care,
> --
> Christian Robottom Reis | http://async.com.br/~kiko/ | [+55 16] 3361 2331
> -
> To view or change your list settings, click here:
> <http://bugzilla.org/cgi-bin/mj_wwwusr?user=jake at bugzilla.org>
>
>



From kiko at async.com.br  Thu Nov 25 12:01:18 2004
From: kiko at async.com.br (Christian Robottom Reis)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 10:01:18 -0200
Subject: Upgrading one version at a time
In-Reply-To: <20041124222000.16B9460E5D@ldcmail.amd.com>
References: <20041124222000.16B9460E5D@ldcmail.amd.com>
Message-ID: <20041125120118.GP4865@async.com.br>

On Wed, Nov 24, 2004 at 03:19:59PM -0700, Kevin Benton wrote:
>    Hi all.  I want to upgrade a number of BZ systems from 2.16.x and 2.17.x
>    all to 2.19.1.  I'd like to do it by grabbing patches that will upgrade me
>    one version at a time along the way.  Does anyone have a list of patches I
>    can download to help me get there?  As you can imagine, when I get all the
>    systems up to the same rev, I may make the jump from 2.17.4 to 2.19.1, but
>    till I get there, I still need the patches.

You could probably merge successively to the specified CVS tags; have
you considerd that option?

Take care,
--
Christian Robottom Reis | http://async.com.br/~kiko/ | [+55 16] 3361 2331


From kiko at async.com.br  Thu Nov 25 13:22:29 2004
From: kiko at async.com.br (Christian Robottom Reis)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 11:22:29 -0200
Subject: Default version for new bugs?
In-Reply-To: <639d01c4d27d$2745b040$6e00000a@opus>
References: <639d01c4d27d$2745b040$6e00000a@opus>
Message-ID: <20041125132229.GA4865@async.com.br>

On Wed, Nov 24, 2004 at 05:27:20PM -0600, Dave Williss wrote:
> The template looks like it's trying to get it from some kind of filter, but
> I don't see any place to set it and I don't see any place in the database
> to store it.  We'd like to be able to set it on a per-product basis, since
> different products are at different version numbers.

Actually the code that tries to set a default version does:

    # Use the version specified in the URL, if one is supplied. If not,
    # then use the cookie-specified value. (Posting a bug sets a cookie
    # for the current version.) If no URL or cookie version, the default
    # version is the last one in the list (hopefully the latest one).
    # Eventually maybe each product should have a "current version"
    # parameter.
    $vars->{'version'} = $::versions{$product} || [];
    if (formvalue('version')) {
        $default{'version'} = formvalue('version');
    } elsif (defined $cgi->cookie("VERSION-$product") &&
        lsearch($vars->{'version'}, $cgi->cookie("VERSION-$product")) != -1)
    {
        $default{'version'} = $cgi->cookie("VERSION-$product");
    } else {
        $default{'version'} = $vars->{'version'}->[$#{$vars->{'version'}}];
    }

Which means to me it:
    
    - Tries to get the default from the CGI parameters
    - Tries to get the default from a cookie (bizarre)
    - Uses the last item in the list

This is half-bogus to me and having a default version in the product
table would be an improvement -- explicit is better than implicit,
right?

I also feel the default milestone has no business being an input
type="text"; it should be a SELECT box. 

Does anyone concur with me?

Take care,
--
Christian Robottom Reis | http://async.com.br/~kiko/ | [+55 16] 3361 2331


From justdave at bugzilla.org  Fri Nov 26 01:46:50 2004
From: justdave at bugzilla.org (David Miller)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 20:46:50 -0500
Subject: Default version for new bugs?
In-Reply-To: <20041125132229.GA4865@async.com.br>
References: <639d01c4d27d$2745b040$6e00000a@opus> <20041125132229.GA4865@async.com.br>
Message-ID: <41A68B0A.3000900@bugzilla.org>

Christian Robottom Reis wrote:

> I also feel the default milestone has no business being an input
> type="text"; it should be a SELECT box. 
> 
> Does anyone concur with me?

Where do you see that?  I've never seen target milestone as a text box 
anywhere (except on editmilestones.cgi)

-- 
Dave Miller      Project Leader, Bugzilla Bug Tracking System
http://www.justdave.net/             http://www.bugzilla.org/


From travis at SEDSystems.ca  Fri Nov 26 04:21:30 2004
From: travis at SEDSystems.ca (Shane H. W. Travis)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 22:21:30 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Default version for new bugs?
In-Reply-To: <20041125132229.GA4865@async.com.br>
References: <639d01c4d27d$2745b040$6e00000a@opus> <20041125132229.GA4865@async.com.br>
Message-ID: <Pine.GHP.4.58.0411252219520.2238@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca>



On Thu, 25 Nov 2004, Christian Robottom Reis wrote:

> This is half-bogus to me and having a default version in the product
> table would be an improvement -- explicit is better than implicit,
> right?

I agree that this seems like a usable enhancement. I think it would get used
locally, and I'm sure I've seen someone ask about it before in the
newsgroup. Tried looking for an open bug against it, and couldn't find
anything.

That's just MHO, but I thought I'd speak up to say that I concur with kiko.

Shane H.W. Travis       | Anyone who is capable of getting themselves
travis at sedsystems.ca    |  made President should on no account be allowed
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan |  to do the job.  -- Douglas Adams, HHGTTG



From bugzilla at chimpychompy.org  Fri Nov 26 12:12:08 2004
From: bugzilla at chimpychompy.org (GavinS)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 12:12:08 +0000
Subject: Default version for new bugs?
In-Reply-To: <20041125132229.GA4865@async.com.br>
References: <639d01c4d27d$2745b040$6e00000a@opus>
	<20041125132229.GA4865@async.com.br>
Message-ID: <16807.7576.971489.660494@offsite.i418.iplbath.com>


A default version would be good yes, but I would not like to lose the
cookie-override completely.

It could possibly be documented better, or perhaps there could be a
simple notification on the GUI when the version is obtained from a
cookie, but I know that I use that feature quite a bit when I get
stuck on maintaining older versions of software.

>>>>> "Kiko" == Christian Robottom Reis <kiko at async.com.br> writes:

Kiko> [Stuff about version defaulting]

Kiko> This is half-bogus to me and having a default version in the
Kiko> product table would be an improvement -- explicit is better than
Kiko> implicit, right?

Kiko> I also feel the default milestone has no business being an input
Kiko> type="text"; it should be a SELECT box.

Kiko> Does anyone concur with me?




From kiko at async.com.br  Fri Nov 26 13:13:53 2004
From: kiko at async.com.br (Christian Robottom Reis)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 11:13:53 -0200
Subject: Default version for new bugs?
In-Reply-To: <16807.7576.971489.660494@offsite.i418.iplbath.com>
References: <639d01c4d27d$2745b040$6e00000a@opus> <20041125132229.GA4865@async.com.br> <16807.7576.971489.660494@offsite.i418.iplbath.com>
Message-ID: <20041126131353.GE4866@async.com.br>

On Fri, Nov 26, 2004 at 12:12:08PM +0000, GavinS wrote:
> A default version would be good yes, but I would not like to lose the
> cookie-override completely.
> 
> It could possibly be documented better, or perhaps there could be a
> simple notification on the GUI when the version is obtained from a
> cookie, but I know that I use that feature quite a bit when I get
> stuck on maintaining older versions of software.

Fair enough. Is there an easy, visible way of getting this cookie set by
Bugzilla?

Take care,
--
Christian Robottom Reis | http://async.com.br/~kiko/ | [+55 16] 3361 2331


From kiko at async.com.br  Fri Nov 26 13:19:01 2004
From: kiko at async.com.br (Christian Robottom Reis)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 11:19:01 -0200
Subject: Default version for new bugs?
In-Reply-To: <41A68B0A.3000900@bugzilla.org>
References: <639d01c4d27d$2745b040$6e00000a@opus> <20041125132229.GA4865@async.com.br> <41A68B0A.3000900@bugzilla.org>
Message-ID: <20041126131901.GI4866@async.com.br>

On Thu, Nov 25, 2004 at 08:46:50PM -0500, David Miller wrote:
> Christian Robottom Reis wrote:
> 
> >I also feel the default milestone has no business being an input
> >type="text"; it should be a SELECT box. 
> >
> >Does anyone concur with me?
> 
> Where do you see that?  I've never seen target milestone as a text box 
> anywhere (except on editmilestones.cgi)

Default milestone? In editproducts.cgi?

Take care,
--
Christian Robottom Reis | http://async.com.br/~kiko/ | [+55 16] 3361 2331


From bugzilla at chimpychompy.org  Fri Nov 26 14:58:51 2004
From: bugzilla at chimpychompy.org (GavinS)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 14:58:51 +0000
Subject: Default version for new bugs?
In-Reply-To: <20041126131353.GE4866@async.com.br>
References: <639d01c4d27d$2745b040$6e00000a@opus>
	<20041125132229.GA4865@async.com.br>
	<16807.7576.971489.660494@offsite.i418.iplbath.com>
	<20041126131353.GE4866@async.com.br>
Message-ID: <16807.17579.567668.314923@offsite.i418.iplbath.com>


>>>>> "Kiko" == Christian Robottom Reis <kiko at async.com.br> writes:

Kiko> On Fri, Nov 26, 2004 at 12:12:08PM +0000, GavinS wrote:
>> A default version would be good yes, but I would not like to lose
>> the cookie-override completely.
>> 
>> It could possibly be documented better, or perhaps there could be a
>> simple notification on the GUI when the version is obtained from a
>> cookie, but I know that I use that feature quite a bit when I get
>> stuck on maintaining older versions of software.

Kiko> Fair enough. Is there an easy, visible way of getting this
Kiko> cookie set by Bugzilla?

I think the only way is to submit a bug. (So, no, there is not an easy
way.)



From justdave at bugzilla.org  Fri Nov 26 15:55:23 2004
From: justdave at bugzilla.org (David Miller)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 10:55:23 -0500
Subject: Default version for new bugs?
In-Reply-To: <20041126131901.GI4866@async.com.br>
References: <639d01c4d27d$2745b040$6e00000a@opus> <20041125132229.GA4865@async.com.br> <41A68B0A.3000900@bugzilla.org> <20041126131901.GI4866@async.com.br>
Message-ID: <41A751EB.4090806@bugzilla.org>

Christian Robottom Reis wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 25, 2004 at 08:46:50PM -0500, David Miller wrote:
> 
>>Christian Robottom Reis wrote:
>>
>>>I also feel the default milestone has no business being an input
>>>type="text"; it should be a SELECT box. 
>>
>>Where do you see that?  I've never seen target milestone as a text box 
>>anywhere (except on editmilestones.cgi)
> 
> 
> Default milestone? In editproducts.cgi?

Ah, yes.  And I agree, that ought to be a select box :)

-- 
Dave Miller      Project Leader, Bugzilla Bug Tracking System
http://www.justdave.net/             http://www.bugzilla.org/


From kevin.benton at amd.com  Fri Nov 26 16:27:49 2004
From: kevin.benton at amd.com (Kevin Benton)
Date: 26 Nov 2004 09:27:49 -0700
Subject: Localconfig Tool
Message-ID: <1101486469.14067.15.camel@ldcwebdev>

Hi all.  I am considering writing a localconfig maintenance tool but
wanted to get input from everyone before doing it.  Why a tool for the
localconfig?  I don't want brand-spanking-new admins messing around with
the code in a way that could take down BZ for the enterprise.  I also
want to make sure there are backups and a history of changes.  We're
tracking 34 different OS / version combinations before we start counting
the many Linux variants, and updates are routinely made monthly. 
Obviously, it makes a lot of sense to write this tool.  I also don't
want to collide with what's happening with BZ.  My desire would be that
BZ would move the configuration of the OS's to the DB rather than
leaving it in localconfig.  It would also be my desire that OS and OS
Version be separate items.

*** CAUTION: This may start a flame war which is clearly not my goal ***

I haven't made up my mind yet on whether or not I would write this tool
in Perl or PHP if I write it, however, because of the ease of writing it
in PHP, I'm leaning more that way though I am considering the challenge
of a lone PHP program in the middle of a Perl package.  Knowing both PHP
and Perl, I have wondered if this group has considered moving toward PHP
instead of Perl.  I like Perl, but for web-based scripting, I personally
prefer PHP hands down.


-- 
Kevin Benton <kevin.benton at amd.com>
AMD Longmont




From bugreport at peshkin.net  Fri Nov 26 16:40:41 2004
From: bugreport at peshkin.net (Joel Peshkin)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 08:40:41 -0800
Subject: Localconfig Tool
In-Reply-To: <1101486469.14067.15.camel@ldcwebdev>
References: <1101486469.14067.15.camel@ldcwebdev>
Message-ID: <41A75C89.5030804@peshkin.net>

Kevin Benton wrote:

> I also don't
>want to collide with what's happening with BZ.  My desire would be that
>BZ would move the configuration of the OS's to the DB rather than
>leaving it in localconfig.  
>
That is definitely the way to go.

>It would also be my desire that OS and OS
>Version be separate items.
>
>  
>
Handy.  Of course this is a natural thing to do with the 
as-yet-nonexistant customfields feature.



From justdave at bugzilla.org  Fri Nov 26 16:46:43 2004
From: justdave at bugzilla.org (David Miller)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 11:46:43 -0500
Subject: Localconfig Tool
In-Reply-To: <1101486469.14067.15.camel@ldcwebdev>
References: <1101486469.14067.15.camel@ldcwebdev>
Message-ID: <41A75DF3.2010305@bugzilla.org>

Kevin Benton wrote:
> Hi all.  I am considering writing a localconfig maintenance tool but
> wanted to get input from everyone before doing it.  Why a tool for the
> localconfig?  I don't want brand-spanking-new admins messing around with
> the code in a way that could take down BZ for the enterprise.  I also
> want to make sure there are backups and a history of changes.  We're
> tracking 34 different OS / version combinations before we start counting
> the many Linux variants, and updates are routinely made monthly. 
> Obviously, it makes a lot of sense to write this tool.  I also don't
> want to collide with what's happening with BZ.  My desire would be that
> BZ would move the configuration of the OS's to the DB rather than
> leaving it in localconfig.  It would also be my desire that OS and OS
> Version be separate items.

Here's the long-term plan.  How much this affects things short-term is 
unknown at the moment (i.e. small things that make things better until 
the long-term goal is completed won't necessarily be turned away).

Long term, we want to get all of the items that are currently stored as 
enumerators in the database out of localconfig, and out of the 
enumerator type in the database.  We'd like to move these to separate 
tables in the database with lookups and/or table joins as necessary. 
This would also allow them to be edited via a CGI script, which could 
enforce not removing ones that are still in use, and transparently 
handle renaming, and so forth.

> *** CAUTION: This may start a flame war which is clearly not my goal ***

Heh, that it might.  Tread lightly here :)

> I haven't made up my mind yet on whether or not I would write this tool
> in Perl or PHP if I write it, however, because of the ease of writing it
> in PHP, I'm leaning more that way though I am considering the challenge
> of a lone PHP program in the middle of a Perl package.  Knowing both PHP
> and Perl, I have wondered if this group has considered moving toward PHP
> instead of Perl.  I like Perl, but for web-based scripting, I personally
> prefer PHP hands down.

There are others among us that share that opinion (s/PHP/Python/ for 
some of them), however it's been generally accepted at this point that 
it's not a good idea to mix languages in the core code.  That said, 
there is already precident for using other languages for add-ons that 
aren't part of the core. (There is stuff both in Python and in Ruby in 
the contrib directory)

-- 
Dave Miller      Project Leader, Bugzilla Bug Tracking System
http://www.justdave.net/             http://www.bugzilla.org/


From gerv at mozilla.org  Sat Nov 27 12:30:54 2004
From: gerv at mozilla.org (Gervase Markham)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 12:30:54 +0000
Subject: big thanks- bugzilla.novell.com is up
In-Reply-To: <2cb10c44041110210842e48f53@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2cb10c44041110210842e48f53@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41A8737E.80108@mozilla.org>

Luis Villa wrote:
> P.S. bugzilla.ximian will be going away eventually, so might be time
> to update this: http://www.bugzilla.org/installation-list/ :)

I've added Novell; let me know when I should remove Ximian.

Gerv


From gerv at mozilla.org  Sat Nov 27 13:02:03 2004
From: gerv at mozilla.org (Gervase Markham)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 13:02:03 +0000
Subject: [Bug 269958] Change the link to Apache bugzilla
In-Reply-To: <200411200832.iAK8WpZI000449@mecha.mozilla.org>
References: <200411200832.iAK8WpZI000449@mecha.mozilla.org>
Message-ID: <41A87ACB.9030300@mozilla.org>

See below - it looks like apache.org have decided to upgrade Bugzilla 
for the moment instead of switching to Scarab :-)

Gerv

bugzilla-daemon at mozilla.org wrote:
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=269958
> 
> 
> justdave at bugzilla.org changed:
> 
>            What    |Removed                     |Added
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                  CC|                            |gerv at mozilla.org
>              Status|UNCONFIRMED                 |RESOLVED
>          Resolution|                            |FIXED
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------- Additional Comments From justdave at bugzilla.org  2004-11-20 00:32 PDT -------
> Done.  Both the database entry (alphabetical listing) and the featured entry at
> the top have been updated.  I also notice you upgraded to 2.18rc3 !!  Last time
> I looked you were running 2.14.2.  Coolness :)
> 
> 


From kiko at async.com.br  Sat Nov 27 13:14:49 2004
From: kiko at async.com.br (Christian Robottom Reis)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 11:14:49 -0200
Subject: Default version for new bugs?
In-Reply-To: <41A751EB.4090806@bugzilla.org>
References: <639d01c4d27d$2745b040$6e00000a@opus> <20041125132229.GA4865@async.com.br> <41A68B0A.3000900@bugzilla.org> <20041126131901.GI4866@async.com.br> <41A751EB.4090806@bugzilla.org>
Message-ID: <20041127131449.GB5670@async.com.br>

On Fri, Nov 26, 2004 at 10:55:23AM -0500, David Miller wrote:
> >Default milestone? In editproducts.cgi?
> 
> Ah, yes.  And I agree, that ought to be a select box :)

-> bug 271984

    https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=271984

Take care,
--
Christian Robottom Reis | http://async.com.br/~kiko/ | [+55 16] 3361 2331


From gerv at mozilla.org  Sat Nov 27 17:55:16 2004
From: gerv at mozilla.org (Gervase Markham)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 17:55:16 +0000
Subject: Bugzilla+SXIP, pending release
In-Reply-To: <5419014104111714562cfc308c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5419014104111714562cfc308c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41A8BF84.3040407@mozilla.org>

Andy Smith wrote:
>     Great efforts were made (per request of the development community) during
> the writing of these modules to modify as little of the Bugzilla code as
> possible, 

Indeed - thanks very much for making that effort.

> and to that extent it is possible to use the authentication without
> changing anything except for defparams.pl, 

Hmm. Presumably the SXIP auth modules are picked up automatically, but 
you need some configuration variables for them as well?

LDAP has the same problem. I wonder: can we make auth modules queryable 
to find out what config they need, and then present it?

> however, for the most complete
> integration one will have to make modifications to a few templates, and,
> unfortunately, one of the cgi scripts.
>     With any luck, these modifications will become less and less necessary
> as Bugzilla develops the ability to handle more and more external resources.

Have you filed bugs on the changes necessary here?

If you want to contribute the code to the main Bugzilla tree, you'd need 
to discuss that with Dave.

Gerv


From gerv at mozilla.org  Sat Nov 27 18:07:48 2004
From: gerv at mozilla.org (Gervase Markham)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 18:07:48 +0000
Subject: Standard reports
In-Reply-To: <20041122154550.AACE260E5D@ldcmail.amd.com>
References: <20041122154550.AACE260E5D@ldcmail.amd.com>
Message-ID: <41A8C274.3020301@mozilla.org>

Kevin Benton wrote:
> The period charts I'm planning to create in Crystal Reports 
<snip>

The Bugzilla reporting and charting engine will never do everything, so 
being able to connect to an external reporting system is important. So, 
if you could write up how to connect Bugzilla to CR once you're done, 
that would be very helpful :-)

Gerv


From gerv at mozilla.org  Sat Nov 27 18:07:50 2004
From: gerv at mozilla.org (Gervase Markham)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 18:07:50 +0000
Subject: Standard reports
In-Reply-To: <419253C0.8060108@asyn.com>
References: <419253C0.8060108@asyn.com>
Message-ID: <41A8C276.3030900@mozilla.org>

Stuart Donaldson wrote:
> Is there a solution for customizing standard reporting?
> 
> in particular, I am thinking about something with more specifics than 
> the standard series information uses.  I want to create a series of 
> standard reports for things like:
> 
>    Open
>    Open Hot
>    In Test
>    New in last week
> 
> I know I can set up bookmarks for these, but I run upwards of 30-40 
> products, and more coming on line all the time, so having to do this 
> specifically for each product is a big pain.

So you want each of these reports to be available for each individual 
product you have?

One way to do this would be to add links to the Edit Product page - but 
that would be in the wrong place semantically, and it would mean only 
admins could get to them.

Another way would be to make a page.cgi page (I believe page.cgi is 
documented; if not, read it - it's only a few lines) which dynamically 
generated a load of links for you based on the current product list.

Gerv


From kiko at async.com.br  Sat Nov 27 18:53:48 2004
From: kiko at async.com.br (Christian Robottom Reis)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 16:53:48 -0200
Subject: Bugzilla+SXIP, pending release
In-Reply-To: <41A8BF84.3040407@mozilla.org>
References: <5419014104111714562cfc308c@mail.gmail.com> <41A8BF84.3040407@mozilla.org>
Message-ID: <20041127185348.GE5670@async.com.br>

On Sat, Nov 27, 2004 at 05:55:16PM +0000, Gervase Markham wrote:
> LDAP has the same problem. I wonder: can we make auth modules queryable 
> to find out what config they need, and then present it?

There is a plan for this, but currently we parametrize the UI via Auth
options, and not Auth-mechanisms for config. I would very much prefer it
to be this way, and I suspect I have said something in some bug
somewhere sometime.

Take care,
--
Christian Robottom Reis | http://async.com.br/~kiko/ | [+55 16] 3361 2331


From justdave at bugzilla.org  Sat Nov 27 20:11:16 2004
From: justdave at bugzilla.org (David Miller)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:11:16 -0500
Subject: [Bug 269958] Change the link to Apache bugzilla
In-Reply-To: <41A87ACB.9030300@mozilla.org>
References: <200411200832.iAK8WpZI000449@mecha.mozilla.org> <41A87ACB.9030300@mozilla.org>
Message-ID: <41A8DF64.8060401@bugzilla.org>

Gervase Markham wrote:
> See below - it looks like apache.org have decided to upgrade Bugzilla 
> for the moment instead of switching to Scarab :-)

Last I heard they gave up on Scarab and were using JIRA instead. 
They've had both JIRA and Bugzilla up for a while, and letting each 
project pick which of the two they wanted to use.

-- 
Dave Miller      Project Leader, Bugzilla Bug Tracking System
http://www.justdave.net/             http://www.bugzilla.org/


From justdave at bugzilla.org  Sat Nov 27 20:17:02 2004
From: justdave at bugzilla.org (David Miller)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:17:02 -0500
Subject: Bugzilla+SXIP, pending release
In-Reply-To: <41A8BF84.3040407@mozilla.org>
References: <5419014104111714562cfc308c@mail.gmail.com> <41A8BF84.3040407@mozilla.org>
Message-ID: <41A8E0BE.7070208@bugzilla.org>

Gervase Markham wrote:

> Hmm. Presumably the SXIP auth modules are picked up automatically, but 
> you need some configuration variables for them as well?
> 
> LDAP has the same problem. I wonder: can we make auth modules queryable 
> to find out what config they need, and then present it?

Yeah, that's part of my plan with the editparams reorg I was doing 
(which I'm actually going to have time to work on again sometime in the 
next couple weeks :) :) )  The params page is going to get split up into 
categorized tabs.  There will be a .pm file which is equivalent to 
defparams.pl, which contains only the items on that tab, and a .tmpl 
file in a specific place in the templates directory to go with it to 
show the UI for that tab.  Adding a tab to the parameters screen will be 
a matter of dropping in a .pm and a .tmpl file in the appropriate places 
and they'll automatically be picked up.  This opens the door wide open 
for third-party plugins to add params at will without having to hack 
anything from CVS.

-- 
Dave Miller      Project Leader, Bugzilla Bug Tracking System
http://www.justdave.net/             http://www.bugzilla.org/


From gerv at mozilla.org  Sat Nov 27 22:27:06 2004
From: gerv at mozilla.org (Gervase Markham)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 22:27:06 +0000
Subject: [Bug 269958] Change the link to Apache bugzilla
In-Reply-To: <41A8DF64.8060401@bugzilla.org>
References: <200411200832.iAK8WpZI000449@mecha.mozilla.org> <41A87ACB.9030300@mozilla.org> <41A8DF64.8060401@bugzilla.org>
Message-ID: <41A8FF3A.6090709@mozilla.org>

David Miller wrote:
> Gervase Markham wrote:
> 
>> See below - it looks like apache.org have decided to upgrade Bugzilla 
>> for the moment instead of switching to Scarab :-)
> 
> Last I heard they gave up on Scarab and were using JIRA instead. They've 
> had both JIRA and Bugzilla up for a while, and letting each project pick 
> which of the two they wanted to use.

http://nagoya.apache.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa (65 projects)
vs
http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/enter_bug.cgi (39 projects)

:-| Although we seem to have the big ones like HTTPD, Cocoon and Tomcat. 
The Xalan and Xerces folks seem to be migrating to Jira with their new 
versions.

Gerv


From micklweiss at gmx.net  Sun Nov 28 17:57:34 2004
From: micklweiss at gmx.net (Mick Weiss)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 18:57:34 +0100
Subject: [ham] Goals for 2.22?
In-Reply-To: <419C6128.4000805@altap.cz>
References: <20041117191649.2D7FD60E5F@ldcmail.amd.com> <419BAC7F.3030809@bugzilla.org> <Pine.GHP.4.58.0411171410040.10367@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca> <419C6128.4000805@altap.cz>
Message-ID: <41AA118E.1040003@gmx.net>

I agree with both posts. To be honest, there are problems with every
project. (I can't run a decent Debian PPC system without getting like 10
patches from the DebPPC developers list for example).

I'd like to see an up to date list of "these patches need to be
reviewed", "these are being reviewed by..." and an explanation of how to
get a patch into bugzilla. I remember a patch for LDAP SSL/TLS a while
back. I'm still not sure if it made it into Bugzilla itself.

A definite must would be a "how can I help". The other thought that I
had was company sponsorship. So some people can get paid to work on
Bugzilla. IIRC someone from AMD is now developing Bugzilla and Dave is
at least part time working on it (since he is now working for the
Mozilla Foundation - I believe that thread was "Re: Fostering developers
(was Re: Feature Request)").

How could Bugzilla go about getting company sponsors?

I myself would love to help with reviews. I'm just missing the first
steps I guess. I also only have Sundays that I can work on Bugzilla
stuff. Once a list is made of what should be looked at, I think it will
be easier for me (and others) to help out.

And how can you make sure that your patch actually ends up in Bugzilla?
I just remember that thread "LDAP TLS patch (ref: bug 250916)", because
I'm not sure what I'd do to submit a patch. I guess I'd post it here
(and in a bug), but I'm not sure that this got implimented. I don't have
OpenLDAP setup, and I'm not going to set it up anytime soon - so this
isn't something I can review myself, but I'm just curious.

When someone writes something like:
<snip>
Hello,

I didn't receive any response to my last e-mail when I sent a patch that
added START TLS support to Auth/Verify/LDAP.pm.  I have attached a slightly
revised patch to the bug itself at

   https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=250916

We are currently using this patch where I work and we are eager to get
this patch included into Bugzilla proper.  Please let me know what I can
do.

Thank you.
-- seth / @sethdaniel.org
</snip>

I can understand how de-motivating it can be when you don't get a reply.
  :-|

- Mick

(o> Web / software developer
( )     UNIX Systems Admin
---   ~ www.mickweiss.com ~



Tomas Kopal wrote:
> Completely concur to this post, could not put it better myself. IMHO the 
> problem of Bugzilla is not to get enough developers to get something 
> done, but to keep them around. And timely reviews (or at least some 
> reaction, any feedback is better than nothing) are the best way how to 
> keep people interested. And if you keep them interested long enough, 
> they will become experienced and can start reviewing too...
> 
> I have just short experience with submitting patches, but getting 
> reviews, getting feedback, getting some satisfaction and sense of 
> progress is the biggest problem IMHO.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Tomas
> 
> Shane H. W. Travis wrote:
> 
>>
>> On Wed, 17 Nov 2004, David Miller wrote:
>>
>>
>>> That said, just because we have trouble getting people to work on the
>>> high-priority issues doesn't mean we should give up on it.  Perhaps we
>>> just need to change the tactics of how we solicit help for such things.
>>
>>
>>
>> IMHO, reviewing is a BIG issue. David Fallon wrote a week ago indicating
>> that he had a patch ready to apply, but nobody had looked at it. I've got
>> two 2.18 blockers that are ready to go... but again, no reviews. It's
>> quite possible that we're going about it in the wrong way, but other than
>> blindly setting 'r?' to the name of a complete stranger, there's not much
>> indication what the right way *is*.
>>
>> The fact that the Bugzilla Reviewer's list is way out of date doesn't 
>> help
>> either; I'm trying to help with the grunt work of documentation (so don't
>> talk to me about taking things that nobody else wants to do! :) but 
>> the one
>> person who has been helping out immensely (Vlad) isn't on that list at 
>> all,
>> whereas the two people who are listed for documentation (Jacob and 
>> Barnboy)
>> haven't been active in at least a year.
>>
>> Given that, I'm rather hesitant to set a code review to anyone on the 
>> list
>> other than Dave (for the blockers) because I have no idea who is and 
>> is not
>> still active in the community... so I either ask the air for a review
>> (which, apparently, is incredibly ineffective), or I spam the entire 
>> review
>> list with "r?" and hope someone still active catches it. Neither one is
>> really very satisfying.
>>
>>
>> Vlad's timely reviews of my documentation patches have played a 
>> SIGNIFICANT
>> part in getting me to do *more* documentation patches. As someone who is
>> still new to the process, I can tell you this: there's nothing more
>> disheartening than watching a patch sit (and possibly rot) without anyone
>> even acknowledging that it's there. Nobody likes to be ignored, 
>> especially
>> when one is trying to help. Being ignored basically sends the message 
>> that
>> nobody WANTS your help... and (correct me if I'm wrong) I don't think 
>> that's
>> the stance of the Bugzilla development team, is it? Because 
>> intentional or
>> not, it's the message that is often being sent to new contributors...
>>
>>
>> I know reviewing patches is not nearly as 'fun' as writing your own. 
>> Without
>> reviewers, though, people leave for lack of encouragement (or even
>> acknowledgement) and guidance. When that happens, no new blood comes onto
>> the project, and eventually everyone who is left on it burns out and it
>> dies.  I've seen it before -- not on things like Bugzilla (as this is my
>> first experience in this field), but in other volunteer organizations of
>> which I've been a part.
>>
>>
>> Lest anyone think I'm merely criticizing, I've already put my money 
>> where my
>> mouth is, and made an offer to Dave to review documentation patches. 
>> I'm not
>> well-known enough here to do code reviews, nor (honestly) would I feel
>> comfortable with it... but dagnabbit I know I can write, I'm anal about
>> spacing and punctiation, and I'm working on this SGML stuff. :)
>>
>>
>> Shane H.W. Travis       | Anyone who is capable of getting themselves
>> travis at sedsystems.ca    |  made President should on no account be allowed
>> Saskatoon, Saskatchewan |  to do the job.  -- Douglas Adams, HHGTTG
>>
>> -
>> To view or change your list settings, click here:
>> <http://bugzilla.org/cgi-bin/mj_wwwusr?user=Tomas.Kopal at altap.cz>
>>
> -
> To view or change your list settings, click here:
> <http://bugzilla.org/cgi-bin/mj_wwwusr?user=micklweiss at gmx.net>
> 
> 



From kevin.benton at amd.com  Mon Nov 29 14:17:25 2004
From: kevin.benton at amd.com (Kevin Benton)
Date: 29 Nov 2004 07:17:25 -0700
Subject: Standard reports
In-Reply-To: <41A8C274.3020301@mozilla.org>
References: <20041122154550.AACE260E5D@ldcmail.amd.com>
 <41A8C274.3020301@mozilla.org>
Message-ID: <1101737845.4572.0.camel@ldcwebdev>

Already did...  Simply install MyODBC on the host running Crystal
Reports, point it at your MySQL server, and let 'er rip.  :)

Kevin

On Sat, 2004-11-27 at 11:07, Gervase Markham wrote:
> Kevin Benton wrote:
> > The period charts I'm planning to create in Crystal Reports 
> <snip>
> 
> The Bugzilla reporting and charting engine will never do everything, so 
> being able to connect to an external reporting system is important. So, 
> if you could write up how to connect Bugzilla to CR once you're done, 
> that would be very helpful :-)
> 
> Gerv
> -
> To view or change your list settings, click here:
> <http://bugzilla.org/cgi-bin/mj_wwwusr?user=kevin.benton at amd.com>
> 




From kevin.benton at amd.com  Mon Nov 29 15:11:48 2004
From: kevin.benton at amd.com (Kevin Benton)
Date: 29 Nov 2004 08:11:48 -0700
Subject: [ham] Goals for 2.22?
In-Reply-To: <41AA118E.1040003@gmx.net>
References: <20041117191649.2D7FD60E5F@ldcmail.amd.com>
 <419BAC7F.3030809@bugzilla.org>
 <Pine.GHP.4.58.0411171410040.10367@milhouse.SEDSystems.ca>
 <419C6128.4000805@altap.cz> <41AA118E.1040003@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <1101741108.4572.50.camel@ldcwebdev>

On Sun, 2004-11-28 at 10:57, Mick Weiss wrote:
> I'd like to see an up to date list of "these patches need to be
> reviewed", "these are being reviewed by..." and an explanation of how to
> get a patch into bugzilla. I remember a patch for LDAP SSL/TLS a while
> back. I'm still not sure if it made it into Bugzilla itself.
> 
> A definite must would be a "how can I help". The other thought that I
> had was company sponsorship. So some people can get paid to work on
> Bugzilla. IIRC someone from AMD is now developing Bugzilla and Dave is
> at least part time working on it (since he is now working for the
> Mozilla Foundation - I believe that thread was "Re: Fostering developers
> (was Re: Feature Request)").
> 

That would be me.  The challenge for me is that I'm still behind the
learning curve with BZ so I would not consider myself ready to do patch
validation yet.  The other challenge is that in order for me to do some
of that work, I have to justify it to my boss.  It's not too difficult,
however, I don't see myself doing patch validation for others for at
least a few months.  Until then, I will be spending lots of time
learning how BZ does things and becoming a BZ knowlege expert in the
company.  I'm not there yet. 

> How could Bugzilla go about getting company sponsors?
> 

I think you probably have more than you're aware of.  The challenge we
face is to make a business case for companies to devote resources that
they would need to use to help them make money to aiding the BZ
development.  It has to be a win-win situation or you won't get
participation.  For AMD, it's often a win-win because we're already
using BZ heavily - which is also why they hired me full-time to do BZ
development.

I know that some in this group might think that reporting isn't all that
critical apart from reporting what needs to be fixed now, and having
history of what's been done.  I am here to tell you that great reporting
is one of the keys to gaining tremendous company sponsorship at every
level.

In order to do that, we have to ask ourselves the question, what kinds
of things are upper-level managers *and* front-line engineers looking
for from a tool like BZ?  Plain and simply, managers want reports that
give them the bird's-eye view of what's happening with the ability to
drill-down to issues.  Right now, that's difficult to get from the stock
installation of BZ.  For example, as a former manager, I often measured
things like time to resolution on a weekly basis over a quarter.  From
what I can see, it's possible to generate this type of report from stock
BZ, however, to get it, it requires going through a lot of steps to get
it.  In fact, it is this type of reporting that my customers inside the
company are asking for, both at the management and the engineering
level.

Why are these reports needed?  It's difficult to quantify process
failures if there's no easy way to identify what problems are killing
performance.  With appropriate reporting, locating those process
failures become much easier.  Process improvement allows managers to
help their teams work smarter and more effectively without having to
work harder.  For example, a team I managed was responsible for
responding to systems that weren't working properly.  They got their
alerts via email.  This meant that they were constantly tied to their
mail readers.  To free them up, I placed a system in the NOC that would
receive the same email messages and verbally announce when something
came in that needed their attention.  This allowed the team members to
remain focused on solving problems more and worrying less about incoming
emails.  This, along with other improvements like it, allowed the team
to see a 90% increase in performance while simultaneously decreasing the
team's size (through promotion).

Here are the reports I'm looking to develop using Crystal Reports that I
think should be in BZ's stock reports:

o Time To Resolution over time (i.e. bar graph showing avg. time it took
to resolve bugs that got resolved each week over a 13 week period)
o Time in Queue over time (meaning how long did a particular group hold
on to the issue)
o Time To Acknowledgement (how long till the bug was seen by someone who
could direct it where it needed to go)
o Number of Bugs in Queue over time (how many bugs were in the queue
last week?)
o Number of Bugs Opened over time
o Number of Bugs Resolved over time
o Number of Bugs Pending over time
o Number of Bugs set to Won't Fix over time
o Number of Bugs Reopened over time

Being able to drill-down into those reports would give the user the
ability to look at the sources for each report, giving them the ability
to troubleshoot processes.

I think this is clearly a large undertaking, however, I think it is
critical to the success of Bugzilla against any commercial applications
that may be out there.  I think that by adding this type of reporting,
many more companies will look seriously at BZ as a key resource.

> When someone writes something like:
> <snip>
> Hello,
> 
> I didn't receive any response to my last e-mail when I sent a patch that
> added START TLS support to Auth/Verify/LDAP.pm.  I have attached a slightly
> revised patch to the bug itself at
> 
>    https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=250916
> 
> We are currently using this patch where I work and we are eager to get
> this patch included into Bugzilla proper.  Please let me know what I can
> do.
> 
> Thank you.
> -- seth / @sethdaniel.org
> </snip>
> 
> I can understand how de-motivating it can be when you don't get a reply.

Ditto.