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Dave,<br>
<br>
I suggest we make review and bug filing optional for some docs changes
made by a group of trusted docs writers. Although waiving these steps
means more bugs, it also means more docs improvements, and I think the
benefits outweigh the costs for a set of docs writers with known good
skills. Instead of rehashing all the arguments, please find below most
of the IRC discussion on the subject.<br>
<br>
-myk<br>
<br>
<br>
<table view-type="IRCChannel" class="msg-table">
<tbody>
<tr msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td rowspan="1" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 09:50 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>myk</span></td>
<td mark="odd" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 09:50 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 09:50 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>i
can never remember; does docs hacking require review?</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-timestamp"
time-s="48" time-n="50" time-h="09" time-d="15" time-m="03"
time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 09:50 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><br>
</td>
<td rowspan="1" msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 09:50 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/tru,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>Tru</a></td>
<td mark="even" msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 09:50 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 09:50 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><span>Yes</span></td>
</tr>
<tr important="true" msg-user="lpsolit" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg">
<td msg-user="lpsolit" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="05" time-n="51" time-h="09" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 09:51 AM, lpsolit!LpSolit@216.167.79.83.cust.bluewin.ch"><br>
</td>
<td important="true" msg-user="lpsolit" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 09:51 AM, lpsolit!LpSolit@216.167.79.83.cust.bluewin.ch"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/lpsolit,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>LpSolit</a></td>
<td mark="odd" important="true" msg-user="lpsolit"
view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools"
msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 09:51 AM"
colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 09:51 AM, lpsolit!LpSolit@216.167.79.83.cust.bluewin.ch"><span>myk,
yes, review requested but approval is not</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="33" time-n="51" time-h="09" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 09:51 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><br>
</td>
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 09:51 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>myk</span></td>
<td mark="even" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 09:51 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 09:51 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>hmm,
i thought there were some laxer review requirements for docs</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="lpsolit" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="lpsolit" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="56" time-n="52" time-h="09" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 09:52 AM, lpsolit!LpSolit@216.167.79.83.cust.bluewin.ch"><br>
</td>
<td msg-user="lpsolit" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 09:52 AM, lpsolit!LpSolit@216.167.79.83.cust.bluewin.ch"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/lpsolit,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>LpSolit</a></td>
<td mark="even" msg-user="lpsolit" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 09:52 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 09:52 AM, lpsolit!LpSolit@216.167.79.83.cust.bluewin.ch"><span>Tru,
yes</span></td>
</tr>
<tr important="true" msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg">
<td msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="52" time-n="24" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:24 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><br>
</td>
<td important="true" msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:24 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/travis,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>travis</a></td>
<td mark="odd" important="true" msg-user="travis"
view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools"
msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:24 AM"
colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:24 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><span>[11:51<wbr>]
<myk> hmm, i thought there were some laxer review requirements
for docs <== It <span class="chatzilla-bold">*is*</span>
more lax. The intent is to ensure that things are syntactically and
grammatically correct, and that they are not missing any obvious
information ... not that they are 100% complete and accurate in all
things.</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="27" time-n="26" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:26 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><br>
</td>
<td rowspan="3" msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:26 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/travis,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>travis</a></td>
<td mark="odd" msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:26 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:26 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><span>Basically,
anything is better than nothing as far as documentation goes. The
review is to ensure that we follow proper English grammar and
structure, and that things are organized at least reasonably well. It
is also a second pair of eyes and a second head full of knowledge,
which might find cross-connections of which the original author was
unawares... and it's easier to fix these things before checkin than
after.</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="47" time-n="27" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:27 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><br>
</td>
<td mark="odd" msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:27 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:27 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><span>You
don't request a documentation review of a specific person, though; you
request it of the component owner. People who can do reviews are
watching that owner, and that queue.</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="20" time-n="28" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:28 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><br>
</td>
<td mark="odd" msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:28 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:28 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><span>(the
component owner is <a class="chatzilla-link"
href="mailto:documentation@bugzilla.bugs">documentation@bugzilla.<wbr>bugs<wbr></a>
-- a fake account set up just for this purpose.)</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="34" time-n="28" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:28 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><br>
</td>
<td msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:28 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/travis,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>travis</a></td>
<td mark="odd" msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:28 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:28 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><span>Yes,
the Developer Docs need an update on this procedure; that's one of the
developments in the queue.<span type="face-smile"
class="chatzilla-emote-txt"> :)</span><span title=" :)"
type="face-smile" class="chatzilla-emote"></span></span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="ACTION" class="msg">
<td msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="ACTION" class="msg-timestamp"
time-s="47" time-n="28" time-h="10" time-d="15" time-m="03"
time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:28 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><br>
</td>
<td rowspan="2" msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="ACTION"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:28 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/tru,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>Tru</a></td>
<td mark="even" msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="ACTION"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:28 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:28 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><span>nods.</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-timestamp"
time-s="02" time-n="30" time-h="10" time-d="15" time-m="03"
time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:30 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><br>
</td>
<td mark="even" msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:30 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:30 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><span>Travis
- is there a bug up for that?</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="19" time-n="34" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:34 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><br>
</td>
<td rowspan="1" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:34 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>myk</span></td>
<td mark="odd" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:34 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:34 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>travis:
it may be easier to fix code issues before checkin, but docs issues
would be just as fixable after checkin as before if review were not
required</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="32" time-n="34" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:34 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><br>
</td>
<td rowspan="3" msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:34 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/travis,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>travis</a></td>
<td mark="odd" msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:34 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:34 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><span>LpSolit:
documentation bugs do not require approval</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="34" time-n="34" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:34 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><br>
</td>
<td mark="odd" msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:34 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:34 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><span>just
review</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="51" time-n="34" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:34 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><br>
</td>
<td mark="odd" msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:34 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:34 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><span>once
they have been reviewed, they can be checked in to the tree.</span></td>
</tr>
<tr important="true" msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg">
<td msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-timestamp"
time-s="06" time-n="35" time-h="10" time-d="15" time-m="03"
time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:35 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><br>
</td>
<td important="true" msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:35 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/tru,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>Tru</a></td>
<td mark="even" important="true" msg-user="tru"
view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools"
msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:35 AM"
colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:35 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><span>Myk
- I think that requiring review is appropriate.</span></td>
</tr>
<tr important="true" msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg">
<td msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-timestamp"
time-s="30" time-n="36" time-h="10" time-d="15" time-m="03"
time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:36 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><br>
</td>
<td important="true" msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:36 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/tru,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>Tru</a></td>
<td mark="even" important="true" msg-user="tru"
view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools"
msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:36 AM"
colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:36 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><span>Myk
- the reason being - if we dump poor documentation on our users, it's
going to very negatively impact their view of the software.</span></td>
</tr>
<tr important="true" msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg">
<td msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="51" time-n="36" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:36 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><br>
</td>
<td rowspan="2" important="true" msg-user="travis"
view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools"
msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:36 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/travis,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>travis</a></td>
<td mark="odd" important="true" msg-user="travis"
view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools"
msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:36 AM"
colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:36 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><span>myk:
you're probably right, and back in the days where only Jake was doing
documentation work, he wouldn't bother asking for anyone for review
because there was nobody toa sk</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="01" time-n="37" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:37 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><br>
</td>
<td mark="odd" msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:37 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:37 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><span>to
ask*</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="22" time-n="37" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:37 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><br>
</td>
<td rowspan="2" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:37 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>myk</span></td>
<td mark="even" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:37 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:37 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>Tru:
perhaps it would make sense to designate a group of Bugzilla hackers
whose linguistic skills we trust and not require review for that group</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="40" time-n="37" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:37 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><br>
</td>
<td mark="even" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:37 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:37 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>f.e.
the set of docs reviewers</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="jake" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="jake" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-timestamp"
time-s="41" time-n="37" time-h="10" time-d="15" time-m="03"
time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:37 AM, jake!Jake@washdc3-ar3-4-42-096-002.washdc3.dsl-verizon.net"><br>
</td>
<td msg-user="jake" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:37 AM, jake!Jake@washdc3-ar3-4-42-096-002.washdc3.dsl-verizon.net"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/jake,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>Jake</a></td>
<td mark="odd" msg-user="jake" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:37 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:37 AM, jake!Jake@washdc3-ar3-4-42-096-002.washdc3.dsl-verizon.net"><span>And
when Jake came back to it in Iraq he was still in the habit of not
requesting review and that had a tendency to annoy travis<span
type="face-smile" class="chatzilla-emote-txt"> :)</span><span
title=" :)" type="face-smile" class="chatzilla-emote"></span></span></td>
</tr>
<tr important="true" msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg">
<td msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="06" time-n="38" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:38 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><br>
</td>
<td rowspan="2" important="true" msg-user="travis"
view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools"
msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:38 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/travis,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>travis</a></td>
<td mark="even" important="true" msg-user="travis"
view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools"
msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:38 AM"
colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:38 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><span>myk:
I'd like to think that I'm in that group (of those whose linguistic
skills can be trusted), and I approve of having someone else look over
my patches before they go in.</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="18" time-n="38" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:38 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><br>
</td>
<td mark="even" msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:38 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:38 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><span>I
don't know everything by any means, and often there have been technical
corrections that made the whole thing better.</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="jake" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="jake" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-timestamp"
time-s="22" time-n="38" time-h="10" time-d="15" time-m="03"
time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:38 AM, jake!Jake@washdc3-ar3-4-42-096-002.washdc3.dsl-verizon.net"><br>
</td>
<td msg-user="jake" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:38 AM, jake!Jake@washdc3-ar3-4-42-096-002.washdc3.dsl-verizon.net"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/jake,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>Jake</a></td>
<td mark="odd" msg-user="jake" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:38 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:38 AM, jake!Jake@washdc3-ar3-4-42-096-002.washdc3.dsl-verizon.net"><span>Docs
review is a lot like proof reading before you turn in your English paper</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="26" time-n="38" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:38 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><br>
</td>
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:38 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>myk</span></td>
<td mark="even" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:38 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:38 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>travis:
that's ok; i'm not suggesting that you can't get review or that it's
never useful</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="ACTION" class="msg">
<td msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="ACTION"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="32" time-n="38" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:38 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><br>
</td>
<td msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="ACTION"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:38 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/travis,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>travis</a></td>
<td mark="odd" msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="ACTION"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:38 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:38 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><span>nods
at Jake.</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-timestamp"
time-s="39" time-n="38" time-h="10" time-d="15" time-m="03"
time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:38 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><br>
</td>
<td msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:38 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/tru,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>Tru</a></td>
<td mark="even" msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:38 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:38 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><span>While
I may want to consider myself part of that group, I would rather not
have that responsibility on my shoulders. If I make a mistake and I
update, then I don't get to share the blame. If I make a mistake and a
reviewer misses it too, then we both get to share blame.</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="55" time-n="38" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:38 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><br>
</td>
<td msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:38 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/travis,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>travis</a></td>
<td mark="odd" msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:38 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:38 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><span>In
fact, it's like having someone <span class="chatzilla-bold">*else*</span>
proofread your English paper, which is the best way to do it.</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="ACTION" class="msg">
<td msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="ACTION" class="msg-timestamp"
time-s="55" time-n="38" time-h="10" time-d="15" time-m="03"
time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:38 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><br>
</td>
<td msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="ACTION" class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:38 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/tru,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>Tru</a></td>
<td mark="even" msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="ACTION"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:38 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:38 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><span>nods
at travis and jake.</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="58" time-n="38" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:38 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><br>
</td>
<td rowspan="2" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:38 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>myk</span></td>
<td mark="odd" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:38 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:38 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>travis:
i'm just suggesting that it would be beneficial to not require review
in some cases</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="11" time-n="39" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:39 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><br>
</td>
<td mark="odd" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:39 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:39 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>Tru:
i'm part of that group, and i do want that responsibility</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-timestamp"
time-s="18" time-n="40" time-h="10" time-d="15" time-m="03"
time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:40 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><br>
</td>
<td msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:40 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/tru,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>Tru</a></td>
<td mark="even" msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:40 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:40 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><span>So
- if nobody reviews your update but the update (unintentionally) leads
users astray, who will know about it besides you?</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="40" time-n="40" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:40 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><br>
</td>
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:40 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>myk</span></td>
<td mark="odd" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:40 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:40 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>i
don't care about blame, i care about improving docs; and i have good
english skills, but i don't have a lot of time; going through
thebug->review->checkin <wbr> cycle for fixes like the one i
just made to using.xml is way too much work for a change of that
magnitude</span></td>
</tr>
<tr important="true" msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg">
<td msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="53" time-n="40" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:40 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><br>
</td>
<td important="true" msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:40 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/travis,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>travis</a></td>
<td mark="even" important="true" msg-user="travis"
view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools"
msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:40 AM"
colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:40 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><span>myk:
we had an email discussion like this about six months ago -- Vlad,
Jake, Dave and I -- which is when this current policy was formed. I'm
not averse to reopening the discussion for the purposes of very small
fixes -- on the order of what you were doing today -- but IMHO anything
larger than that <span class="chatzilla-bold">*needs*</span> a second
pair of eyes.</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="54" time-n="40" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:40 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><br>
</td>
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:40 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>myk</span></td>
<td mark="odd" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:40 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:40 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>Tru:
everyone, the moment someone reports the error</span></td>
</tr>
<tr important="true" msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg">
<td msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="04" time-n="42" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:42 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><br>
</td>
<td important="true" msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:42 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/travis,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>travis</a></td>
<td mark="even" important="true" msg-user="travis"
view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools"
msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:42 AM"
colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:42 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><span>myk:
Would you still be willing to make a bug and a patch? Or are you
looking at just hacking the docs directly with no public record?</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="22" time-n="42" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:42 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><br>
</td>
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:42 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>myk</span></td>
<td mark="odd" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:42 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:42 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>travis:
i'm suggesting hacking the docs directly with the CVS public record</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="31" time-n="42" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:42 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><br>
</td>
<td msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:42 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/travis,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>travis</a></td>
<td mark="even" msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:42 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:42 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><span>(I'm
wondering if you're just trying to skip the review phase, or the whole
bug creation/patch creation/patch uploading/bug closing phase)</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="03" time-n="43" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:43 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><br>
</td>
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:43 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>myk</span></td>
<td mark="odd" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:43 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:43 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>travis:
i'm suggesting that a group of hackers be able to skip all those phases
for a set of changes</span></td>
</tr>
<tr important="true" msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg">
<td msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-timestamp"
time-s="12" time-n="43" time-h="10" time-d="15" time-m="03"
time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:43 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><br>
</td>
<td important="true" msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:43 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/tru,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>Tru</a></td>
<td mark="even" important="true" msg-user="tru"
view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools"
msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:43 AM"
colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:43 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><span>Myk
- I guess where I'm coming from - I depend heavily on the docs being
accurate. If they're not or they mislead, then I wind up wasting my
time as a user. If a lot of users are doing the same thing, then how
much time is wasted? Is it more wasted time to utilize the process or
more wasted time for users to be lead astray?</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="32" time-n="43" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:43 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><br>
</td>
<td rowspan="2" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:43 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>myk</span></td>
<td mark="odd" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:43 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:43 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>travis:
obviously there are some changes large enough to require review, but i
think the hackers we trust to make changes without review can also be
trusted to decide when it's necessary</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="12" time-n="44" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:44 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><br>
</td>
<td mark="odd" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:44 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:44 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>Tru:
i think it's more wasted time for the users, because busy hackers like
me aren't going to update the docs nearly as much if we have to go
through a more cumbersome process to do so</span></td>
</tr>
<tr important="true" msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg">
<td msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="19" time-n="44" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:44 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><br>
</td>
<td important="true" msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:44 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/travis,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>travis</a></td>
<td mark="even" important="true" msg-user="travis"
view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools"
msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:44 AM"
colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:44 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><span>myk:
by the same token, are you not a Trusted Code Hacker? By that same
logic, should we not just say, "Myk knows what he's doing as far as the
UI goes, and he can just hack the UI code with only the CVS as public
record?" If not -- and this is an honest question, not sarcasm -- what
do you perceive as the difference between the two?</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="57" time-n="46" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:46 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><br>
</td>
<td rowspan="2" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:46 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>myk</span></td>
<td mark="even" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:46 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:46 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>travis:
code bugs break the app for other hackers, who have to stop working
until the bustage gets fixed; errors in documentation do not generally
stop docs hackers from working on them</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="11" time-n="47" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:47 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><br>
</td>
<td mark="even" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:47 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:47 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>travis:
so code bugs are more serious</span></td>
</tr>
<tr important="true" msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg">
<td msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-timestamp"
time-s="12" time-n="47" time-h="10" time-d="15" time-m="03"
time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:47 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><br>
</td>
<td important="true" msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:47 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/tru,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>Tru</a></td>
<td mark="odd" important="true" msg-user="tru"
view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools"
msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:47 AM"
colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:47 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><span>myk:
If the review adds more time to getting the documentation update into
CVS, how does that prevent you from continuing what you're doing?</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="24" time-n="47" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:47 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><br>
</td>
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:47 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>myk</span></td>
<td mark="odd" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:47 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:47 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>Tru:
it's the whole process that takes more time</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="58" time-n="47" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:47 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><br>
</td>
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:47 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>myk</span></td>
<td mark="odd" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:47 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:47 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>travis:
but as a matter of fact i do think that we could beneficially waive the
review requirement for some kinds of hacking</span></td>
</tr>
<tr important="true" msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg">
<td msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-timestamp"
time-s="23" time-n="48" time-h="10" time-d="15" time-m="03"
time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:48 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><br>
</td>
<td important="true" msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:48 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/tru,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>Tru</a></td>
<td mark="even" important="true" msg-user="tru"
view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools"
msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:48 AM"
colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:48 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><span>myk:
What's preventing you from making updates to your Bugzilla installation
and following the process for the rest of us?</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="38" time-n="48" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:48 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><br>
</td>
<td msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:48 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/travis,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>travis</a></td>
<td mark="odd" msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:48 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:48 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><span>Tru:
ethics</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="44" time-n="48" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:48 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><br>
</td>
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:48 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>myk</span></td>
<td mark="even" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:48 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:48 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>Tru:
i don't have a Bugzilla installation; i'm hacking on Bugzilla</span></td>
</tr>
<tr important="true" msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg">
<td msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-timestamp"
time-s="23" time-n="49" time-h="10" time-d="15" time-m="03"
time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:49 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><br>
</td>
<td important="true" msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:49 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/tru,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>Tru</a></td>
<td mark="odd" important="true" msg-user="tru"
view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools"
msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:49 AM"
colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:49 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><span>myk:
That's a problem from my perspective because those of us who do can be
negatively impacted from an error in an update regardless of the size.</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="56" time-n="49" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:49 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><br>
</td>
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:49 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>myk</span></td>
<td mark="even" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:49 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:49 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>Tru:
i don't understand; what's a problem from your perspective?</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-timestamp"
time-s="06" time-n="50" time-h="10" time-d="15" time-m="03"
time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:50 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><br>
</td>
<td rowspan="2" msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:50 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/tru,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>Tru</a></td>
<td mark="odd" msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:50 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:50 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><span>It's
also one reason why I'm writing a Pre-Release Testing Guide to cover
all of Bugzilla.</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-timestamp"
time-s="48" time-n="50" time-h="10" time-d="15" time-m="03"
time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:50 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><br>
</td>
<td mark="odd" msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:50 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:50 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><span>The
problem from my perspective is not following the process to prevent
human error.</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="27" time-n="51" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:51 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><br>
</td>
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:51 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>myk</span></td>
<td mark="even" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:51 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:51 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>Tru:
sure, not requiring review will sometimes result in errors with
negative impact to others</span></td>
</tr>
<tr important="true" msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg">
<td msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="40" time-n="51" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:51 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><br>
</td>
<td important="true" msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:51 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/travis,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>travis</a></td>
<td mark="odd" important="true" msg-user="travis"
view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools"
msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:51 AM"
colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:51 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><span>myk:
I do understand where you're coming from. Having to follow any
procedure is always a PITA, and slows things down. I would be willing
to entertain discussion about 'trusted docs hackers' not needing a
review, but relying completely on CVS for tracking is not something I'm
personally comfortable with.</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-timestamp"
time-s="46" time-n="51" time-h="10" time-d="15" time-m="03"
time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:51 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><br>
</td>
<td msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:51 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/tru,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>Tru</a></td>
<td mark="even" msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:51 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:51 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><span>How
many times have each of us made mistakes on even little things that
caused problems? I'd raise my hand more times than I can count. It's
not that we can't make changes without making mistakes, it's that we do
make mistakes and sometimes we don't catch them till they're a problem.</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="51" time-n="51" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:51 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><br>
</td>
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:51 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>myk</span></td>
<td mark="odd" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:51 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:51 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>Tru:
not requiring two reviews, which is what we do now, also has that
problem</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="14" time-n="52" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:52 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><br>
</td>
<td rowspan="3" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:52 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>myk</span></td>
<td mark="even" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:52 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:52 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>Tru:
in fact, i just reviewed and checked in some docs code today only to
find i missed a problem</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="38" time-n="52" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:52 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><br>
</td>
<td mark="even" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:52 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:52 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>Tru:
but we don't require two reviews because the benefit in reduced errors
isn't worth the effort</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="03" time-n="53" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:53 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><br>
</td>
<td mark="even" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:53 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:53 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>Tru:
my suggestion is that not requiring one review gives us more benefit
than it costs us in some cases</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-timestamp"
time-s="08" time-n="53" time-h="10" time-d="15" time-m="03"
time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:53 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><br>
</td>
<td msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:53 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/tru,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>Tru</a></td>
<td mark="odd" msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:53 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:53 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><span>See?
That's the whole point I was trying to make - even reviewers make
mistakes, but at least the reviewer (you) looked at it and had an
opportunity to catch a problem.</span></td>
</tr>
<tr important="true" msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg">
<td msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="25" time-n="53" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:53 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><br>
</td>
<td important="true" msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:53 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/travis,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>travis</a></td>
<td mark="even" important="true" msg-user="travis"
view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools"
msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:53 AM"
colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:53 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><span>myk:
it's a matter of perspective. I hear you saying that even one review on
docs isn't 'worth the effort'. I recognize that you feel that way, but
I don't feel the same way.</span></td>
</tr>
<tr important="true" msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg">
<td msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-timestamp"
time-s="52" time-n="54" time-h="10" time-d="15" time-m="03"
time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:54 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><br>
</td>
<td important="true" msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:54 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/tru,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>Tru</a></td>
<td mark="odd" important="true" msg-user="tru"
view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools"
msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:54 AM"
colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:54 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><span>myk:
having been a production operations manager, I completely agree with
travis that not reviewing under 'certain' circumstances leads to a
greater potential for problems and abuse of process that was put in
place to protect us from ourselves. Process does add time initially but
if it saves us from releasing buggy updates, then it saves us time and
reputation.</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="46" time-n="55" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:55 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><br>
</td>
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:55 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>myk</span></td>
<td mark="even" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:55 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:55 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>travis:
sure, i understand. i would just suggest that it's probably because
we're different, and different processes would be optimal for us, and
we should be more flexible in applying processes to different hackers
to make the best use of their capabilities and potential</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="14" time-n="56" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:56 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><br>
</td>
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:56 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>myk</span></td>
<td mark="odd" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:56 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:56 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>Tru:
sure it does, but it also has greater potential for solutions and
better docs</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="lpsolit" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="lpsolit" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="17" time-n="56" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:56 AM, lpsolit!LpSolit@216.167.79.83.cust.bluewin.ch"><br>
</td>
<td msg-user="lpsolit" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:56 AM, lpsolit!LpSolit@216.167.79.83.cust.bluewin.ch"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/lpsolit,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>LpSolit</a></td>
<td mark="even" msg-user="lpsolit" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:56 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:56 AM, lpsolit!LpSolit@216.167.79.83.cust.bluewin.ch"><span>travis,
could you check this patch in?</span></td>
</tr>
<tr important="true" msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg">
<td msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-timestamp"
time-s="06" time-n="57" time-h="10" time-d="15" time-m="03"
time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:57 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><br>
</td>
<td important="true" msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:57 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/tru,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>Tru</a></td>
<td mark="odd" important="true" msg-user="tru"
view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools"
msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:57 AM"
colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:57 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><span>myk:
Maybe we should just agree to disagree on this. Please don't get me
wrong - I'm not picking on you. I have two responsibilities in my job -
writing Bugzilla code and administering an active Bugzilla. As an
administrator, I want to be sure I'm only using well-tested code.</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="17" time-n="57" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:57 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><br>
</td>
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:57 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>myk</span></td>
<td mark="even" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:57 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:57 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>Tru:
i think the additional problems from not reviewing some docs would be
compensated for many times over by the additional docs and doc
improvements such a policy would open the door for</span></td>
</tr>
<tr important="true" msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg">
<td msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-timestamp"
time-s="50" time-n="57" time-h="10" time-d="15" time-m="03"
time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:57 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><br>
</td>
<td important="true" msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:57 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/tru,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>Tru</a></td>
<td mark="odd" important="true" msg-user="tru"
view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools"
msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:57 AM"
colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:57 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><span>myk:
If you don't want to wait for review, that's fine with me. File your
bug and patch, then feel free to move on.<span type="face-smile"
class="chatzilla-emote-txt"> :)</span><span title=" :)"
type="face-smile" class="chatzilla-emote"></span></span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="15" time-n="58" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:58 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><br>
</td>
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:58 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>myk</span></td>
<td mark="even" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:58 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:58 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>Tru:
i can't do that at the moment, since that would be breaking the rules</span></td>
</tr>
<tr important="true" msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg">
<td msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="26" time-n="58" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:58 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><br>
</td>
<td rowspan="2" important="true" msg-user="travis"
view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools"
msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:58 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/travis,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>travis</a></td>
<td mark="odd" important="true" msg-user="travis"
view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools"
msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:58 AM"
colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:58 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><span>myk:
that way also lies resentment, however. Based on discussion on the
developers@ list, I would bet that Gerv would think that he deserves
Trusted Docs Hacker status. Based on the response to his suggestions,
others do not.</span></td>
</tr>
<tr important="true" msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg">
<td msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="45" time-n="58" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:58 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><br>
</td>
<td mark="odd" important="true" msg-user="travis"
view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools"
msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:58 AM"
colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:58 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><span>myk:
<span class="chatzilla-bold">*file*</span> the bug and move on,
not <span class="chatzilla-bold">*fix*</span> the bug.</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="47" time-n="58" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:58 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><br>
</td>
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:58 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>myk</span></td>
<td mark="even" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:58 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:58 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>Tru:
but i'd like more than that anyway; i want to not have to file bugs on
some fixes</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-timestamp"
time-s="58" time-n="58" time-h="10" time-d="15" time-m="03"
time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:58 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><br>
</td>
<td msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:58 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/tru,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>Tru</a></td>
<td mark="odd" msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:58 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:58 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><span>I
don't think anyone deserves that status because we're all human.</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="10" time-n="59" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:59 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><br>
</td>
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:59 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>myk</span></td>
<td mark="even" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:59 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:59 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>Tru:
it works pretty well in the Mozilla community</span></td>
</tr>
<tr important="true" msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg">
<td msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="52" time-n="59" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:59 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><br>
</td>
<td important="true" msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:59 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/travis,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>travis</a></td>
<td mark="odd" important="true" msg-user="travis"
view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools"
msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:59 AM"
colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:59 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><span>myk:
I know nothing about the Mozilla community, so I can't comment. Are you
talking docs only, or everything?</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="59" time-n="59" time-h="10" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:59 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><br>
</td>
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:59 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>myk</span></td>
<td mark="even" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 10:59 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 10:59 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>travis:
perhaps; but we can't not make decisions because some people will
resent them; it's our responsibility as project managers to make the
hard decisions about who gets such privileges and others (like to
become a reviewer)</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="49" time-n="01" time-h="11" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 11:01 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><br>
</td>
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 11:01 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>myk</span></td>
<td mark="odd" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 11:01 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 11:01 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>travis:
i'm talking docs mostly, where bugs don't need to be filed and/or
changes don't need review in a number of cases; but there are also some
places where review is waived for code as well, and i believe bugs
don't need to be filed for some really minor code fixes</span></td>
</tr>
<tr important="true" msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg">
<td msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-timestamp"
time-s="01" time-n="03" time-h="11" time-d="15" time-m="03"
time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 11:03 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><br>
</td>
<td important="true" msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 11:03 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/tru,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>Tru</a></td>
<td mark="even" important="true" msg-user="tru"
view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools"
msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 11:03 AM"
colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 11:03 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><span>myk:
As I see it, that's a really slippery slope. If we give approval for
certain kinds of updates, what's to prevent someone from abusing that
power to make updates beyond the scope of the authorization?</span></td>
</tr>
<tr important="true" msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg">
<td msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="58" time-n="03" time-h="11" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 11:03 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><br>
</td>
<td rowspan="2" important="true" msg-user="travis"
view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools"
msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 11:03 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/travis,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>travis</a></td>
<td mark="odd" important="true" msg-user="travis"
view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools"
msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 11:03 AM"
colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 11:03 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><span>myk:
okay, well, you're definitely talking about a change to How Things Are
Done At Bugzilla... so it's worth bringing up on the developers@ list
if you feel strongly about it... or maybe, better yet, use reviewers@
(now that it's a discussion list). I'm fairly confident that you'll
receive some support from some corners, based on past posting history,
and the discussion itself is probably worth having.</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="33" time-n="04" time-h="11" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 11:04 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><br>
</td>
<td mark="odd" msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 11:04 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 11:04 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><span>I
doubt anything is going to be settled in IRC, though. Just my feeling.</span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="43" time-n="04" time-h="11" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 11:04 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><br>
</td>
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 11:04 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>myk</span></td>
<td mark="even" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 11:04 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 11:04 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>Tru:
the same things preventing them from doing it now, given that most
Bugzilla privileges aren't restricted programmatically: tight feedback
loops </span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="32" time-n="05" time-h="11" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 11:05 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><br>
</td>
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 11:05 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>myk</span></td>
<td mark="odd" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 11:05 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 11:05 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>travis:
ok, i'll do so</span></td>
</tr>
<tr important="true" msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg">
<td msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-timestamp"
time-s="38" time-n="05" time-h="11" time-d="15" time-m="03"
time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 11:05 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><br>
</td>
<td important="true" msg-user="tru" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 11:05 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/tru,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>Tru</a></td>
<td mark="even" important="true" msg-user="tru"
view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools"
msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 11:05 AM"
colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 11:05 AM, tru!spam@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com"><span>myk
- I think you are one of the people that if we were going to do
something like that for, I would be in favor of you having that
capability. The problem is, I'm not against you having the ability, I'm
against the entire concept of making updates to Bugzilla that aren't in
the DB for someone to search on. I also feel that having a reviewer
review means that someone else can act as a check/balance to make sure
the update is taking Bugzilla in the<br>
</span></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<table view-type="IRCChannel" class="msg-table">
<tbody>
<tr msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 11:06 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><a
href="irc://irc.mozilla.org/travis,isnick" class="chatzilla-link"></span><span>travis</a></td>
<td mark="odd" msg-user="travis" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 11:06 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 11:06 AM, travis!travis@sw-27.SEDSystems.ca"><span>"I'm
not against you having the ability, I'm against the entire concept of
making updates to Bugzilla that aren't in the DB for someone to search
on." <-- this says it well for me also. </span></td>
</tr>
<tr msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel" dest-type="IRCChannel"
msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG" class="msg">
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-timestamp" time-s="11" time-n="07" time-h="11" time-d="15"
time-m="03" time-y="2005"
statustext="03/15/2005 11:07 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><br>
</td>
<td msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-user"
statustext="03/15/2005 11:07 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>myk</span></td>
<td mark="even" msg-user="myk ME!" view-type="IRCChannel"
dest-type="IRCChannel" msg-dest="#mozwebtools" msg-type="PRIVMSG"
class="msg-data" timestamp="03/15/2005 11:07 AM" colspan="5"
statustext="03/15/2005 11:07 AM, myk!myk@c-24-23-199-67.client.comcast.net"><span>travis,
Tru: but they are in the db; they're in CVS and in bonsai</span></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</body>
</html>